thank you
"SCmark10" wrote in message
...
Siezures are no worse for a dog than vigorous excercize for the same
amount of
time. So a 1 minute siezure shouldnt be a big deal, but a 10 minute one
could
cause harm. Best thing is to avoid them with medication.

A lot of veterinary neurologists are using potassium bromide instead of
phenobarbitol, but there are a lot of dogs on phenobarb also. The fear is
that
long term phenobarbitol can cause liver problems.

Seizures can be very hard to watch, and a very tough time to get through,
for both you and the dog. I had a small dog who was a bad epileptic. She
began having seizures at the age of 2. The vets were trying to help her,
but were having little success at first. She had started Phenobarb, but
after a couple of months things were not improving. She was getting much,
much worse. She got tot he point that she could not get up at all. She
lived in her bed under a blanket, which I always carried around with me so
she could be on the same floor as me and everyone else. I will never forget
when a cat, not realizing Taffy was under the towel, had gone to lay down in
the bed. She layed right down on top of Taffy, and poor Taff never even
moved. She loved to play with the cats, so it was terrible to see.

I had taken her to two different vets, both said the prognosis was very
grim, but it was not time to put her down. Every few days she would go in
for an injection of Valium and Phenobarb. After that, she would come back
to life for about a day or so. I was told that since the phenobarb tablets
were not working, there was a good possibility that she had a brain
tumor....epilepsy would improve... But they sent me to a very nice
neurologist. He was wonderful with her, and with me. He told me not to
worry just yet, there are some very bad epileptics that require more
medications before they get regulated. He said that most vets do not see
cases like that because they are more rare, but it does happen. He ran some
tests on her, and a spinal tap. He also kept her connected to a valim and
phenobard drip for about 24 hours.

The next day, he I went back in to see her, and brought her a brand new
slipper (favorite toy). She was groggy, but very much alive and very happy
to see her new slipper! The tests came back quite well, no evidence of any
tumors, but her liver enzymes were very high. He said it was impossible at
that time to determine if there was liver problems or if it was just because
of the number of seizures that she was having. I was sent home with
Potassium Bromide (to supplement the Pheno), and lots of liquid valium to
keep her controlled until the Bromide began to work.

Within a couple of months she was doing much better. She was off the liquid
valium and had gotten to where she only had a bad seizure once every couple
of months. The liver tests were repeated once she was well stablelized, and
came back normal. I had my puppy back again! (It also helped me that I had
a friend who was epileptic. Once she realized that I was not going to stop
being her friend after I witnessed her seizures, I could ask her a lot of
questions about what Taffy felt before, during and after a seizure. Having
this person to talk to was a tremendous help)

Taffy lived to be 15 and a half. She went in a seizure. All medications
stopped working, so there was nothing they could do to bring her out of it.
The vet worked, continuously injecting more drugs into her, but she was not
coming out of it. After working on her for 25 minutes, he came back and
told me it was time to have her put down, she would never come out of that
seizure.

He did tell me that now they treat dogs with Potassium Bromide first because
it is a much safer drug - long term - than the Phenobarb. He said that most
dogs do very well on that alone and it is not damaging to the liver, like
the Phenobarb. (Though Taffy was one that would have required the Phenobarb
anyway, because she always needed at least two seizure medications. There
were times that she had to be given more, and I always had some liquid
Valium at home for emergencies). Knowing what I know now, I would be
inquiring about trying the Potassium Bromide first, and adding Phenobard if
needed....Liver damage generally sets in and takes then early. Taffy was
apparently very, very lucky, and almost unheard of not to have developed
liver damage. I hope that you and your dog can enjoy a long life together
too!

I was at a new vet clinic when I lost Taff. (I had just moved a few weeks
earlier). A few weeks after I lost her, I went in to bring in a new puppy
and to pick up Taffy's remains. When I arrived, the vet (who worked so
diligently on Taffy - for a couple of days before that final seizure), was
in the waiting room. He called back quite loudly "The person who had the 15
and a half year old bad epileptic is here!". Suddenly I was greated by 3
other vets and a few techs. I was crying, but said it was Taffy who
deserved the reception because she was the strong one, NOT me.

I guess I am rambling and venting on here. It has been a year now, almost
to the day, but it is still very fresh in my mind and very hard. Taffy was
a very special and unique little monster. There will never be another one
like her...but now she has gone to the big bath tub in the sky (she LOVED
the bath - yes also very unusual for a small dog!!). She's not having
anymore seizures.

Ok, I'll shut up now..

Best of luck with your dog! I hope he lives a long and happy life too!
Andrea



"Tony Dentino" wrote in message
...
My 4 yr old GSP has begun to have seizures. This has devastated me. He is
now on Phenobarbital( since 8/26). I am so worried about him .he really is
my best friend. Are there other thing out there that I might be able to
use
to help him through this? The vet tells me that he feels nothing when
experiencing a seizure but it is the most horrific thing I have ever
witnessed, Thank You

--
Ranger and Katie

Seizures can be very hard to watch, and a very tough time to get through,
for both you and the dog. I had a small dog who was a bad epileptic. She
began having seizures at the age of 2. The vets were trying to help her,
but were having little success at first. She had started Phenobarb, but
after a couple of months things were not improving. She was getting much,
much worse. She got tot he point that she could not get up at all. She
lived in her bed under a blanket, which I always carried around with me so
she could be on the same floor as me and everyone else. I will never forget
when a cat, not realizing Taffy was under the towel, had gone to lay down in
the bed. She layed right down on top of Taffy, and poor Taff never even
moved. She loved to play with the cats, so it was terrible to see.

I had taken her to two different vets, both said the prognosis was very
grim, but it was not time to put her down. Every few days she would go in
for an injection of Valium and Phenobarb. After that, she would come back
to life for about a day or so. I was told that since the phenobarb tablets
were not working, there was a good possibility that she had a brain
tumor....epilepsy would improve... But they sent me to a very nice
neurologist. He was wonderful with her, and with me. He told me not to
worry just yet, there are some very bad epileptics that require more
medications before they get regulated. He said that most vets do not see
cases like that because they are more rare, but it does happen. He ran some
tests on her, and a spinal tap. He also kept her connected to a valim and
phenobard drip for about 24 hours.

The next day, he I went back in to see her, and brought her a brand new
slipper (favorite toy). She was groggy, but very much alive and very happy
to see her new slipper! The tests came back quite well, no evidence of any
tumors, but her liver enzymes were very high. He said it was impossible at
that time to determine if there was liver problems or if it was just because
of the number of seizures that she was having. I was sent home with
Potassium Bromide (to supplement the Pheno), and lots of liquid valium to
keep her controlled until the Bromide began to work.

Within a couple of months she was doing much better. She was off the liquid
valium and had gotten to where she only had a bad seizure once every couple
of months. The liver tests were repeated once she was well stablelized, and
came back normal. I had my puppy back again! (It also helped me that I had
a friend who was epileptic. Once she realized that I was not going to stop
being her friend after I witnessed her seizures, I could ask her a lot of
questions about what Taffy felt before, during and after a seizure. Having
this person to talk to was a tremendous help)

Taffy lived to be 15 and a half. She went in a seizure. All medications
stopped working, so there was nothing they could do to bring her out of it.
The vet worked, continuously injecting more drugs into her, but she was not
coming out of it. After working on her for 25 minutes, he came back and
told me it was time to have her put down, she would never come out of that
seizure.

He did tell me that now they treat dogs with Potassium Bromide first because
it is a much safer drug - long term - than the Phenobarb. He said that most
dogs do very well on that alone and it is not damaging to the liver, like
the Phenobarb. (Though Taffy was one that would have required the Phenobarb
anyway, because she always needed at least two seizure medications. There
were times that she had to be given more, and I always had some liquid
Valium at home for emergencies). Knowing what I know now, I would be
inquiring about trying the Potassium Bromide first, and adding Phenobard if
needed....Liver damage generally sets in and takes then early. Taffy was
apparently very, very lucky, and almost unheard of not to have developed
liver damage. I hope that you and your dog can enjoy a long life together
too!

I was at a new vet clinic when I lost Taff. (I had just moved a few weeks
earlier). A few weeks after I lost her, I went in to bring in a new puppy
and to pick up Taffy's remains. When I arrived, the vet (who worked so
diligently on Taffy - for a couple of days before that final seizure), was
in the waiting room. He called back quite loudly "The person who had the 15
and a half year old bad epileptic is here!". Suddenly I was greated by 3
other vets and a few techs. I was crying, but said it was Taffy who
deserved the reception because she was the strong one, NOT me.

I guess I am rambling and venting on here. It has been a year now, almost
to the day, but it is still very fresh in my mind and very hard. Taffy was
a very special and unique little monster. There will never be another one
like her...but now she has gone to the big bath tub in the sky (she LOVED
the bath - yes also very unusual for a small dog!!). She's not having
anymore seizures.

Ok, I'll shut up now..

Best of luck with your dog! I hope he lives a long and happy life too!
Andrea



"Tony Dentino" wrote in message
...
My 4 yr old GSP has begun to have seizures. This has devastated me. He is
now on Phenobarbital( since 8/26). I am so worried about him .he really is
my best friend. Are there other thing out there that I might be able to
use
to help him through this? The vet tells me that he feels nothing when
experiencing a seizure but it is the most horrific thing I have ever
witnessed, Thank You

--
Ranger and Katie

I have to disagree about a 1 minute seizure being no worse than a vigorous
exersize. While I agree that I 10 minute one is more scary, no grand mal
seizure should be taken so lightly. During exersize, he can "watch" out for
himself and avoid injury, and there is NO lack of oxygen to the brain. The
opposite is true of any seizure.

After one of my dogs seizures, she left with a bad limp for 3 days. She had
not fallen off any furniture or anything, but her front leg had gone up over
her head. There was no serious injury, but it was uncomfortable for her.
And none of that mentions what they feel after a seizure. Talk to any
person who has seizures, they will tell you exactly how they feel after. My
friends (I've spoken to two epileptics) never compared any of them to
exercize. They complained more about severe headaches, nausea, vomiting,
body aches, disorientation and severe fatique. The worst that both of these
people experienced was the reaction of "so called" friends after seeing a
seizure. Losing almost all of their friends and not permitted to be near
children. These friends of mine were very helpful for me to talk to,
especially in the early years of Taffy's epilepsy. Vets were great at
trying to explain everything, but it was better coming from people who had
first hand experience.

It is best to minimize all seizures as much as possible. Never forget to
give the medication. I had to get a watch with multiple alarm settings in
the beginning to make sure I had the reminder. Keep some anti-nauseants
around the house. (The vet can tell you the type and dosage). Bufferin or
Advil may also help to reduce the pain some if there is a severe headache
after.

Again, best of luck to you and your dog!
Andrea

Siezures are no worse for a dog than vigorous excercize for the same
amount of
time. So a 1 minute siezure shouldnt be a big deal, but a 10 minute
one
could
cause harm. Best thing is to avoid them with medication.

I have to disagree about a 1 minute seizure being no worse than a vigorous
exersize. While I agree that I 10 minute one is more scary, no grand mal
seizure should be taken so lightly. During exersize, he can "watch" out for
himself and avoid injury, and there is NO lack of oxygen to the brain. The
opposite is true of any seizure.

After one of my dogs seizures, she left with a bad limp for 3 days. She had
not fallen off any furniture or anything, but her front leg had gone up over
her head. There was no serious injury, but it was uncomfortable for her.
And none of that mentions what they feel after a seizure. Talk to any
person who has seizures, they will tell you exactly how they feel after. My
friends (I've spoken to two epileptics) never compared any of them to
exercize. They complained more about severe headaches, nausea, vomiting,
body aches, disorientation and severe fatique. The worst that both of these
people experienced was the reaction of "so called" friends after seeing a
seizure. Losing almost all of their friends and not permitted to be near
children. These friends of mine were very helpful for me to talk to,
especially in the early years of Taffy's epilepsy. Vets were great at
trying to explain everything, but it was better coming from people who had
first hand experience.

It is best to minimize all seizures as much as possible. Never forget to
give the medication. I had to get a watch with multiple alarm settings in
the beginning to make sure I had the reminder. Keep some anti-nauseants
around the house. (The vet can tell you the type and dosage). Bufferin or
Advil may also help to reduce the pain some if there is a severe headache
after.

Again, best of luck to you and your dog!
Andrea

Siezures are no worse for a dog than vigorous excercize for the same
amount of
time. So a 1 minute siezure shouldnt be a big deal, but a 10 minute
one
could
cause harm. Best thing is to avoid them with medication.

A 1 minute seizure no big deal? Wrong. My dog's seizures are
typically one minute long and he's blind for up to 15 minutes
afterwards. There's some serious stuff going on in that brain
for 60 seconds.

I agree wth that 100%. There is lack of oxygen going to the brain (if I am
not mistaken) which is bad for any period of time. A collegue of mine had a
dog who had a seizure (first one at age 10, I believe). It was no longer
than 1 min, if that time. The dog was left permanently blind. No exersize
routine will cause that, I guarantee. (Bear in mind that since this dog was
older when he had is first seizure, chances are it was NOT epilepsy and
there were other serious problems going on. However, it was after the
seizure the he lost his sight).

KBr is often used for cluster situations and normally in
conjunction with PB (allowing a lower than normal dose of PB),
though some dogs are on just one or the other. There are also a
number of other drugs that work well with some dogs.

KBr does NOT always allow a lower than normal dose of PB. If the dog
requires both, chances are the PB will have to remain within a normal range.
With Taffy, when either med went slightly low, she would seizure a lot,
generally cluster. There were times that when the PB was in low range of
normal, while the KBr was mid range of normal, that the vet increased the
KBr to slightly higher than normal to try to control things again. This
worked for a while, but the PB did have to be well within the normal range.
Back 15 years ago, PB was always the first drug of choice. Now, due to the
long term effects, most vets try starting with KBr.

Andrea

A 1 minute seizure no big deal? Wrong. My dog's seizures are
typically one minute long and he's blind for up to 15 minutes
afterwards. There's some serious stuff going on in that brain
for 60 seconds.

I agree wth that 100%. There is lack of oxygen going to the brain (if I am
not mistaken) which is bad for any period of time. A collegue of mine had a
dog who had a seizure (first one at age 10, I believe). It was no longer
than 1 min, if that time. The dog was left permanently blind. No exersize
routine will cause that, I guarantee. (Bear in mind that since this dog was
older when he had is first seizure, chances are it was NOT epilepsy and
there were other serious problems going on. However, it was after the
seizure the he lost his sight).

KBr is often used for cluster situations and normally in
conjunction with PB (allowing a lower than normal dose of PB),
though some dogs are on just one or the other. There are also a
number of other drugs that work well with some dogs.

KBr does NOT always allow a lower than normal dose of PB. If the dog
requires both, chances are the PB will have to remain within a normal range.
With Taffy, when either med went slightly low, she would seizure a lot,
generally cluster. There were times that when the PB was in low range of
normal, while the KBr was mid range of normal, that the vet increased the
KBr to slightly higher than normal to try to control things again. This
worked for a while, but the PB did have to be well within the normal range.
Back 15 years ago, PB was always the first drug of choice. Now, due to the
long term effects, most vets try starting with KBr.

Andrea

Wow, you went through a lot. And congratulations for hanging in
there for so long, so many people wouldn't have.

Taffy went through more than I did. As I said earlier, she was the strong
one. By times, I was a basket case. Everytime she went into clusters, and
it happened quite frequently, the minute she was at the vet and out of my
sight, I broke down completely. Especially if when it was after hours and I
had a long drive to the emerg (which is why I had liquid Valium on hand most
of the time). That is something I hope not to go through again, but if I
had to, I would. Taffy became a very big part of me. She was close by when
I went through a major injury and a number of operations. She knew when I
was not well, and she felt it was her duty to look after me. Through all of
her problems, and mine, we became very close.


I just want to correct one minor point. Sometimes it's not
possible to start a dog on only Potassium Bromide, especially a
dog with frequent or (in Rocky's case) cluster seizures. It can
take a couple of months for the KBr to build up to therapeutic
levels, somewhat less with a loading dose.


I think a lot of times, if a dog is clustering a lot, chances are both meds
would be needed. Taff began on PB, alone it was completely useless. Still,
I would want to begin with the KBr and use Rivotril and/or liquid Valium
(depending on severity) while building up the therapeutic levels. This is
what I had to do with Taffy anyway, because the PB was working as well as
water.

Rocky was started on a full dose of PB along with the KBr -
after 6 weeks, the levels were checked and I was able to
gradually reduce the PB to half the original dose. That was
almost 3 years ago. Rocky is now a year seizure free and I'm
seeing that the KBr is likely responsible for the majority of
his ataxia, so I'm working on reducing that drug now.

Wow! You are lucky that you got Rocky seizure free!!! At the best of
times, Taffy never went more than 8 weeks without one. I think you are
lucky to have been able to reduce his PB. I would have loved to have done
that with Taff, but that was not possible. KBr tends to cause more weakness
in the back end, especially at higher levels. I did notice that with Taff
at the start, but later on it was not at all noticeable, unless her levels
went high.


This fine tuning the drug cocktail is never-ending, eh?

Your not kidding!


--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Wow, you went through a lot. And congratulations for hanging in
there for so long, so many people wouldn't have.

Taffy went through more than I did. As I said earlier, she was the strong
one. By times, I was a basket case. Everytime she went into clusters, and
it happened quite frequently, the minute she was at the vet and out of my
sight, I broke down completely. Especially if when it was after hours and I
had a long drive to the emerg (which is why I had liquid Valium on hand most
of the time). That is something I hope not to go through again, but if I
had to, I would. Taffy became a very big part of me. She was close by when
I went through a major injury and a number of operations. She knew when I
was not well, and she felt it was her duty to look after me. Through all of
her problems, and mine, we became very close.


I just want to correct one minor point. Sometimes it's not
possible to start a dog on only Potassium Bromide, especially a
dog with frequent or (in Rocky's case) cluster seizures. It can
take a couple of months for the KBr to build up to therapeutic
levels, somewhat less with a loading dose.


I think a lot of times, if a dog is clustering a lot, chances are both meds
would be needed. Taff began on PB, alone it was completely useless. Still,
I would want to begin with the KBr and use Rivotril and/or liquid Valium
(depending on severity) while building up the therapeutic levels. This is
what I had to do with Taffy anyway, because the PB was working as well as
water.

Rocky was started on a full dose of PB along with the KBr -
after 6 weeks, the levels were checked and I was able to
gradually reduce the PB to half the original dose. That was
almost 3 years ago. Rocky is now a year seizure free and I'm
seeing that the KBr is likely responsible for the majority of
his ataxia, so I'm working on reducing that drug now.

Wow! You are lucky that you got Rocky seizure free!!! At the best of
times, Taffy never went more than 8 weeks without one. I think you are
lucky to have been able to reduce his PB. I would have loved to have done
that with Taff, but that was not possible. KBr tends to cause more weakness
in the back end, especially at higher levels. I did notice that with Taff
at the start, but later on it was not at all noticeable, unless her levels
went high.


This fine tuning the drug cocktail is never-ending, eh?

Your not kidding!


--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.