A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative. Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

We all know how powerful OC can be. This sounds absolutely eeevil to me! Anyone
heard of this before? Any suggestions where my friend might turn for help?

Sorry if this is off topic, but we are talking about training "the human
animal" to click (and click and click, and click click clickclickclick
clickclickclick clickclickclickclickclickclick)

Susan Fraser, owned and trained by
SheBop, Shammie, Boog, and GreeGree
Good as gold, but way more precious

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

That is a very well written article, especially for a 16 year old.

And EverQuest is geek heaven. I hate RPG's but I love it.


This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

Everquest has a storyline, really - the quests are the story line. And it
can be multiplayer, or not.

They have been blaming suicides on D&D stuff since I was a kid. If someone
commits suicide because of an RPG then its really because of some underlying
mental illness, not the rpg.

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

That is a very well written article, especially for a 16 year old.

And EverQuest is geek heaven. I hate RPG's but I love it.


This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

Everquest has a storyline, really - the quests are the story line. And it
can be multiplayer, or not.

They have been blaming suicides on D&D stuff since I was a kid. If someone
commits suicide because of an RPG then its really because of some underlying
mental illness, not the rpg.

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

That is a very well written article, especially for a 16 year old.

And EverQuest is geek heaven. I hate RPG's but I love it.


This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

Everquest has a storyline, really - the quests are the story line. And it
can be multiplayer, or not.

They have been blaming suicides on D&D stuff since I was a kid. If someone
commits suicide because of an RPG then its really because of some underlying
mental illness, not the rpg.

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

That is a very well written article, especially for a 16 year old.

And EverQuest is geek heaven. I hate RPG's but I love it.


This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

Everquest has a storyline, really - the quests are the story line. And it
can be multiplayer, or not.

They have been blaming suicides on D&D stuff since I was a kid. If someone
commits suicide because of an RPG then its really because of some underlying
mental illness, not the rpg.

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

We all know how powerful OC can be. This sounds absolutely eeevil to me!
Anyone
heard of this before? Any suggestions where my friend might turn for help?

attributing suicide to a video game sounds a bit naive to me. i guess i'm
one of those people who doesn't "believe" in video game addictions.
compulsive behavior? sure. indicative of an attention disorder? probably.
but addiction? i don't think so. when i was a teenager, i read books
nonstop. did this bother anyone? no, because reading is *good*, and smart
people read. why is this game any different? it challenges the
imagination, keeps the kid out of trouble, allows him to socialize in a
less anxiety provoking way. would she rather he be out street racing or
getting high behind the 7-11?

as far as operant conditioning... it's something we experience every day.
let's say you go out to a bar. you buy your drink, and tip the bartender.
next time you get your drink, the bartender smiles and pours it a bit
stronger. you tip him again. he smiles again and the next drink is
stronger. why is this? he's being conditioned to think that pouring a
strong drink will make him more tips. you're being conditioned to think
that giving a tip will get you a stronger drink.
operant conditioning is in everything we do. it's hardly news that it's
part of a video game.

my feeling is that if mom thinks the game is getting in the way of more
important things (school, work, etc), she's free to lock up the computer.
it is her house, after all. and if she's still worried about evil genius
video game makers ruining her son, maybe she should call Oprah and stage an
intervention.

-kelly

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

We all know how powerful OC can be. This sounds absolutely eeevil to me!
Anyone
heard of this before? Any suggestions where my friend might turn for help?

attributing suicide to a video game sounds a bit naive to me. i guess i'm
one of those people who doesn't "believe" in video game addictions.
compulsive behavior? sure. indicative of an attention disorder? probably.
but addiction? i don't think so. when i was a teenager, i read books
nonstop. did this bother anyone? no, because reading is *good*, and smart
people read. why is this game any different? it challenges the
imagination, keeps the kid out of trouble, allows him to socialize in a
less anxiety provoking way. would she rather he be out street racing or
getting high behind the 7-11?

as far as operant conditioning... it's something we experience every day.
let's say you go out to a bar. you buy your drink, and tip the bartender.
next time you get your drink, the bartender smiles and pours it a bit
stronger. you tip him again. he smiles again and the next drink is
stronger. why is this? he's being conditioned to think that pouring a
strong drink will make him more tips. you're being conditioned to think
that giving a tip will get you a stronger drink.
operant conditioning is in everything we do. it's hardly news that it's
part of a video game.

my feeling is that if mom thinks the game is getting in the way of more
important things (school, work, etc), she's free to lock up the computer.
it is her house, after all. and if she's still worried about evil genius
video game makers ruining her son, maybe she should call Oprah and stage an
intervention.

-kelly

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

We all know how powerful OC can be. This sounds absolutely eeevil to me!
Anyone
heard of this before? Any suggestions where my friend might turn for help?

attributing suicide to a video game sounds a bit naive to me. i guess i'm
one of those people who doesn't "believe" in video game addictions.
compulsive behavior? sure. indicative of an attention disorder? probably.
but addiction? i don't think so. when i was a teenager, i read books
nonstop. did this bother anyone? no, because reading is *good*, and smart
people read. why is this game any different? it challenges the
imagination, keeps the kid out of trouble, allows him to socialize in a
less anxiety provoking way. would she rather he be out street racing or
getting high behind the 7-11?

as far as operant conditioning... it's something we experience every day.
let's say you go out to a bar. you buy your drink, and tip the bartender.
next time you get your drink, the bartender smiles and pours it a bit
stronger. you tip him again. he smiles again and the next drink is
stronger. why is this? he's being conditioned to think that pouring a
strong drink will make him more tips. you're being conditioned to think
that giving a tip will get you a stronger drink.
operant conditioning is in everything we do. it's hardly news that it's
part of a video game.

my feeling is that if mom thinks the game is getting in the way of more
important things (school, work, etc), she's free to lock up the computer.
it is her house, after all. and if she's still worried about evil genius
video game makers ruining her son, maybe she should call Oprah and stage an
intervention.

-kelly

"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
...
A friend is desperately looking for help. She believes her son is addicted
to
an online game called EverQuest. Sure, I thought, he probably spends too
much
time online, but he lives in her house and she should just lay down the
law,
set some boundaries yada yada yada...

And then I read this:
http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep
you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no
storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative.
Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

We all know how powerful OC can be. This sounds absolutely eeevil to me!
Anyone
heard of this before? Any suggestions where my friend might turn for help?

attributing suicide to a video game sounds a bit naive to me. i guess i'm
one of those people who doesn't "believe" in video game addictions.
compulsive behavior? sure. indicative of an attention disorder? probably.
but addiction? i don't think so. when i was a teenager, i read books
nonstop. did this bother anyone? no, because reading is *good*, and smart
people read. why is this game any different? it challenges the
imagination, keeps the kid out of trouble, allows him to socialize in a
less anxiety provoking way. would she rather he be out street racing or
getting high behind the 7-11?

as far as operant conditioning... it's something we experience every day.
let's say you go out to a bar. you buy your drink, and tip the bartender.
next time you get your drink, the bartender smiles and pours it a bit
stronger. you tip him again. he smiles again and the next drink is
stronger. why is this? he's being conditioned to think that pouring a
strong drink will make him more tips. you're being conditioned to think
that giving a tip will get you a stronger drink.
operant conditioning is in everything we do. it's hardly news that it's
part of a video game.

my feeling is that if mom thinks the game is getting in the way of more
important things (school, work, etc), she's free to lock up the computer.
it is her house, after all. and if she's still worried about evil genius
video game makers ruining her son, maybe she should call Oprah and stage an
intervention.

-kelly

Susan Fraser wrote:\

This game uses operant conditioning to shape players' actions - Variable
schedules of reinforcement - Multilayered and overlapping goals that keep you
always close to a reward. Turns Maslow's heirchy upside down: personal
achievements and aesthetics can come before basic needs. There's no storyline;
the player is in control. It's massively multiplayer. It's cooperative. Very
social. And very very scary. At least one suicide attributed to virtual
character's death.

I know this is really helpful, but--did you see the Star Trek: The Next
Generation
(the one with Patrick Stewart) episode called "The Game"? Similar except the
writers didn't seem so familiar with Skinner--but the game used rewards that
appeared to be orgasmic in nature to get people addicted, and then motivated them
to act towards its creators ends.

I know a dog trainer who went to Vegas, took a good look at the people, and came
home disillusioned about variable schedules. That is, you can make the dog do
it, but is it happy?

Amy Dahl