On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob

I know of situations where the dog's first encounter took place with a
wet nose and wet coat while standing in wet grass and it was not a
minor trauma... a friend's dog (Dogma, who is on my web page at
www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy) had that experience and he spent the
rest of the day trembling in fear. He ran into a standard livestock
fence.

Another dog on that same web page (Chuck Berry) ran into a similar
fence while approaching some sheep, and he was terrified of sheep for
years after that. That was not all bad, of course.

I have trained my dog to stay inside a perimeter and away from
livestock without any kind of gadgets. It takes patience, but it is a
better (and cheaper) solution if you are moving around with your dog.

Charlie

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob

I know of situations where the dog's first encounter took place with a
wet nose and wet coat while standing in wet grass and it was not a
minor trauma... a friend's dog (Dogma, who is on my web page at
www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy) had that experience and he spent the
rest of the day trembling in fear. He ran into a standard livestock
fence.

Another dog on that same web page (Chuck Berry) ran into a similar
fence while approaching some sheep, and he was terrified of sheep for
years after that. That was not all bad, of course.

I have trained my dog to stay inside a perimeter and away from
livestock without any kind of gadgets. It takes patience, but it is a
better (and cheaper) solution if you are moving around with your dog.

Charlie

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob

I know of situations where the dog's first encounter took place with a
wet nose and wet coat while standing in wet grass and it was not a
minor trauma... a friend's dog (Dogma, who is on my web page at
www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy) had that experience and he spent the
rest of the day trembling in fear. He ran into a standard livestock
fence.

Another dog on that same web page (Chuck Berry) ran into a similar
fence while approaching some sheep, and he was terrified of sheep for
years after that. That was not all bad, of course.

I have trained my dog to stay inside a perimeter and away from
livestock without any kind of gadgets. It takes patience, but it is a
better (and cheaper) solution if you are moving around with your dog.

Charlie

Quoth zxcvbob on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500,

It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice.

Very interesting! I've never used this sort of fence for a dog, though I
used to live in a rural area where single-wire cattle fences were
common. I'll stick with a "real" fence (wire mesh in my case) but I'll
keep that in mind.

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.

If the fence is used PROPERLY, the dog knows that it is there. I sort of
chuckle every time someone says "you should boundary train the dog
instead of using an IF" because if you follow the instructions and use
common sense, the IF is really just a tool for boundary training.

My advice to the OP is based on the assumption that they have trained
the dog to the IF. If they haven't (some lucky dogs WILL teach
themselves, but I agree it shouldn't happen to a dog) they will need to
drag out the book -- or use a google search on "boundary training" +dog
and some common sense -- to teach the new boundary.

If I were to use the foot-high wire I would also teach it as a boundary
before leaving the dog in a position to investigate it. As you point
out, until the dog is wised up to the fence (in your example by being
"bitten") the dog doesn't see or smell that fence either.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

Quoth zxcvbob on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500,

It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice.

Very interesting! I've never used this sort of fence for a dog, though I
used to live in a rural area where single-wire cattle fences were
common. I'll stick with a "real" fence (wire mesh in my case) but I'll
keep that in mind.

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.

If the fence is used PROPERLY, the dog knows that it is there. I sort of
chuckle every time someone says "you should boundary train the dog
instead of using an IF" because if you follow the instructions and use
common sense, the IF is really just a tool for boundary training.

My advice to the OP is based on the assumption that they have trained
the dog to the IF. If they haven't (some lucky dogs WILL teach
themselves, but I agree it shouldn't happen to a dog) they will need to
drag out the book -- or use a google search on "boundary training" +dog
and some common sense -- to teach the new boundary.

If I were to use the foot-high wire I would also teach it as a boundary
before leaving the dog in a position to investigate it. As you point
out, until the dog is wised up to the fence (in your example by being
"bitten") the dog doesn't see or smell that fence either.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

Quoth zxcvbob on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500,

It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice.

Very interesting! I've never used this sort of fence for a dog, though I
used to live in a rural area where single-wire cattle fences were
common. I'll stick with a "real" fence (wire mesh in my case) but I'll
keep that in mind.

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.

If the fence is used PROPERLY, the dog knows that it is there. I sort of
chuckle every time someone says "you should boundary train the dog
instead of using an IF" because if you follow the instructions and use
common sense, the IF is really just a tool for boundary training.

My advice to the OP is based on the assumption that they have trained
the dog to the IF. If they haven't (some lucky dogs WILL teach
themselves, but I agree it shouldn't happen to a dog) they will need to
drag out the book -- or use a google search on "boundary training" +dog
and some common sense -- to teach the new boundary.

If I were to use the foot-high wire I would also teach it as a boundary
before leaving the dog in a position to investigate it. As you point
out, until the dog is wised up to the fence (in your example by being
"bitten") the dog doesn't see or smell that fence either.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

Quoth zxcvbob on Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:28:19 -0500,

It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice.

Very interesting! I've never used this sort of fence for a dog, though I
used to live in a rural area where single-wire cattle fences were
common. I'll stick with a "real" fence (wire mesh in my case) but I'll
keep that in mind.

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.

If the fence is used PROPERLY, the dog knows that it is there. I sort of
chuckle every time someone says "you should boundary train the dog
instead of using an IF" because if you follow the instructions and use
common sense, the IF is really just a tool for boundary training.

My advice to the OP is based on the assumption that they have trained
the dog to the IF. If they haven't (some lucky dogs WILL teach
themselves, but I agree it shouldn't happen to a dog) they will need to
drag out the book -- or use a google search on "boundary training" +dog
and some common sense -- to teach the new boundary.

If I were to use the foot-high wire I would also teach it as a boundary
before leaving the dog in a position to investigate it. As you point
out, until the dog is wised up to the fence (in your example by being
"bitten") the dog doesn't see or smell that fence either.


-----------------------------------------
Only know that there is no spork.

You're a know nuthin dog abusing coward.


Subject: Temporarily moving my Invisible Fence [jerry]
From: zxcvbob
Date: 9/26/04 9:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob

You're a know nuthin dog abusing coward.


Subject: Temporarily moving my Invisible Fence [jerry]
From: zxcvbob
Date: 9/26/04 9:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob

You're a know nuthin dog abusing coward.


Subject: Temporarily moving my Invisible Fence [jerry]
From: zxcvbob
Date: 9/26/04 9:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Elizabeth Naime wrote:
Bob, wouldn't it be very easy for a dog to avoid a single foot-high
wire? One of my dogs would probably hop over it (she believes in
shortcuts) and never learn that it was "hot" at all! Same possible
problem with other dogs in the neighborhood.


It has been my experience that the dog will walk into the wire one time
(without seeing it) and get zapped, or he will see it, sniff it, and get
zapped on the nose. Eventually, he will go back to see what it was that
bit him, and he'll see the wire. I've never had one that would go over
or under an electric fence after getting zapped once or twice. In fact,
I seldom have the fence around my garden electrified. My dog someimes
goes right up next to it to show just how close she can get but she
won't cross it. (if it were a fence around my yard to keep her in, I
would have to electrify it again at this point.)

I think IF's are cruel because the doog can't see or smell it.
Traditional electric fences are kind of harsh, but not cruel because Dog
can see it. Also, it keeps other dogs out where the IF doesn't. Your
dog is trapped in the yard and other dogs can go in and out -- That's
why I really prefer chain link or wooden privacy fences.

Bob