Max is our beloved 6 year-old Havanese, who weighs about 17.4 lbs
and has a history of calcium oxalate crystals in his urine and who,
about one year ago, had three calcium oxalate uroliths removed
from his bladder.

He has been on a diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist
for about two months and previously was on the Strombeck pea/rice diet to
prevent calcium oxalate uroliths, and earlier still he was on Hill's
Canine U/D.

Today, I brought Max to our veterinarian, Terry Jacobs, for examination.
Max's overall health status looked fine but Terry was concerned about an
abundant level of struvite crystals in Max's urine. Regarding the urine, no
calcium oxalate crystals were evident, the PH was 8, and there were no red
blood cells evident. Terry is culturing a sample of Max's urine to
see if Max has a urinary tract infection.

Terry palpated Max's abdomen but could not find evidence of stones.
He mentioned an X-ray but I declined given that Max does not seem
to have problems urinating.

About the only thought Terry had was to reduce the alkalinitiy of Max's
urine by reducing or eliminating potassium citrate supplements.

Managing Max's urine PH has been a interesting exercise. Terry had Max on
500 mgs of potassium citrate BID, but this was way too much. After weeks of
experimenting I came to give Max 35 mgs in the morning and 70 mgs at night.
I divided the dose this way because Max's morning urine tends to be more
acidic than his evening urine. The result of this supplementation was that
Max's morning urine is about PH 7 and his evening urine is PH 8 or PH 8.5.

As I recall, when the stones were detected in Max's urine last year
the urine PH was about 5.6.

I am planning to experiment with altering the PH and bringing in fresh urine
samples to see if we could find some optimal PH that minimized both struvite
and calcium oxalate crystals. (I am assuming that Max does not have
a urinary tract infection. We'll be waiting for the results of
culturing his urine.)

If you have any thoughts about this, I would appreciate your sharing them
with me.

Thanks,

--Marshall & Max :-)

Marshall Dermer wrote:



If you have any thoughts about this, I would appreciate your sharing them
with me.

Thanks,

--Marshall & Max :-)

Marshall I am so sorry to read this about Max. This bladder
stone thing is becoming quite frightening to me.

I sure hope your experiment works. I have nothing to share
but would sure like to see what others here have to say.

Give Max some hugs.

Gwen

Marshall Dermer wrote:



If you have any thoughts about this, I would appreciate your sharing them
with me.

Thanks,

--Marshall & Max :-)

Marshall I am so sorry to read this about Max. This bladder
stone thing is becoming quite frightening to me.

I sure hope your experiment works. I have nothing to share
but would sure like to see what others here have to say.

Give Max some hugs.

Gwen

In article Gwen Watson writes:
Marshall I am so sorry to read this about Max. This bladder
stone thing is becoming quite frightening to me.

I sure hope your experiment works. I have nothing to share
but would sure like to see what others here have to say.

Give Max some hugs.

Gwen

Thanks for the emotional support Gwen.

--Marshall & Max

In article Gwen Watson writes:
Marshall I am so sorry to read this about Max. This bladder
stone thing is becoming quite frightening to me.

I sure hope your experiment works. I have nothing to share
but would sure like to see what others here have to say.

Give Max some hugs.

Gwen

Thanks for the emotional support Gwen.

--Marshall & Max

(Marshall Dermer) wrote in message ...
Max is our beloved 6 year-old Havanese, who weighs about 17.4 lbs
and has a history of calcium oxalate crystals in his urine and who,
about one year ago, had three calcium oxalate uroliths removed
from his bladder.

He has been on a diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist
for about two months and previously was on the Strombeck pea/rice diet to
prevent calcium oxalate uroliths, and earlier still he was on Hill's
Canine U/D.

Today, I brought Max to our veterinarian, Terry Jacobs, for examination.
Max's overall health status looked fine but Terry was concerned about an
abundant level of struvite crystals in Max's urine. Regarding the urine, no
calcium oxalate crystals were evident, the PH was 8, and there were no red
blood cells evident. Terry is culturing a sample of Max's urine to
see if Max has a urinary tract infection.

This is really too high. Bearing in mind that each pH is not exactly a
simple scale. Something that is the pH of 8 is greatly more alkaline
than a pH of 7.5. It would not be surprising to find struvite crystals
in urine with this pH. Target pH for u/d for example is 7.4, with a
range of 7.1-7.7. While 7.7 seems only a few tenths of a point from
8.0, it is actually quite a big difference. One of the difficulties
with pH test strips is the inability to measure the "tenths" of a
point. The difference between 8.0 and 7.7 is not always easily
detectable. (Marshall, I'm not sure about the strips you are using as
I have never looked at them, so I'm referring to commonly availble pH
strips.)


Terry palpated Max's abdomen but could not find evidence of stones.
He mentioned an X-ray but I declined given that Max does not seem
to have problems urinating.

About the only thought Terry had was to reduce the alkalinitiy of Max's
urine by reducing or eliminating potassium citrate supplements.

I would agree.


Managing Max's urine PH has been a interesting exercise. Terry had Max on
500 mgs of potassium citrate BID, but this was way too much. After weeks of
experimenting I came to give Max 35 mgs in the morning and 70 mgs at night.
I divided the dose this way because Max's morning urine tends to be more
acidic than his evening urine. The result of this supplementation was that
Max's morning urine is about PH 7 and his evening urine is PH 8 or PH 8.5.

As I recall, when the stones were detected in Max's urine last year
the urine PH was about 5.6.

I am planning to experiment with altering the PH and bringing in fresh urine
samples to see if we could find some optimal PH that minimized both struvite
and calcium oxalate crystals. (I am assuming that Max does not have
a urinary tract infection. We'll be waiting for the results of
culturing his urine.)

After collecting the "fresh urine", be sure the clinic is ready to
receive it and tests it very quickly. Even a few hours can greatly
alter the results.

Keep us appraised, I find this case really interesting.

(Marshall Dermer) wrote in message ...
Max is our beloved 6 year-old Havanese, who weighs about 17.4 lbs
and has a history of calcium oxalate crystals in his urine and who,
about one year ago, had three calcium oxalate uroliths removed
from his bladder.

He has been on a diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist
for about two months and previously was on the Strombeck pea/rice diet to
prevent calcium oxalate uroliths, and earlier still he was on Hill's
Canine U/D.

Today, I brought Max to our veterinarian, Terry Jacobs, for examination.
Max's overall health status looked fine but Terry was concerned about an
abundant level of struvite crystals in Max's urine. Regarding the urine, no
calcium oxalate crystals were evident, the PH was 8, and there were no red
blood cells evident. Terry is culturing a sample of Max's urine to
see if Max has a urinary tract infection.

This is really too high. Bearing in mind that each pH is not exactly a
simple scale. Something that is the pH of 8 is greatly more alkaline
than a pH of 7.5. It would not be surprising to find struvite crystals
in urine with this pH. Target pH for u/d for example is 7.4, with a
range of 7.1-7.7. While 7.7 seems only a few tenths of a point from
8.0, it is actually quite a big difference. One of the difficulties
with pH test strips is the inability to measure the "tenths" of a
point. The difference between 8.0 and 7.7 is not always easily
detectable. (Marshall, I'm not sure about the strips you are using as
I have never looked at them, so I'm referring to commonly availble pH
strips.)


Terry palpated Max's abdomen but could not find evidence of stones.
He mentioned an X-ray but I declined given that Max does not seem
to have problems urinating.

About the only thought Terry had was to reduce the alkalinitiy of Max's
urine by reducing or eliminating potassium citrate supplements.

I would agree.


Managing Max's urine PH has been a interesting exercise. Terry had Max on
500 mgs of potassium citrate BID, but this was way too much. After weeks of
experimenting I came to give Max 35 mgs in the morning and 70 mgs at night.
I divided the dose this way because Max's morning urine tends to be more
acidic than his evening urine. The result of this supplementation was that
Max's morning urine is about PH 7 and his evening urine is PH 8 or PH 8.5.

As I recall, when the stones were detected in Max's urine last year
the urine PH was about 5.6.

I am planning to experiment with altering the PH and bringing in fresh urine
samples to see if we could find some optimal PH that minimized both struvite
and calcium oxalate crystals. (I am assuming that Max does not have
a urinary tract infection. We'll be waiting for the results of
culturing his urine.)

After collecting the "fresh urine", be sure the clinic is ready to
receive it and tests it very quickly. Even a few hours can greatly
alter the results.

Keep us appraised, I find this case really interesting.

In article (Steve Crane) writes:
(Marshall Dermer) wrote in message ...
Max is our beloved 6 year-old Havanese, who weighs about 17.4 lbs
and has a history of calcium oxalate crystals in his urine and who,
about one year ago, had three calcium oxalate uroliths removed
from his bladder.

He has been on a diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist
for about two months and previously was on the Strombeck pea/rice diet to
prevent calcium oxalate uroliths, and earlier still he was on Hill's
Canine U/D.

Today, I brought Max to our veterinarian, Terry Jacobs, for examination.
Max's overall health status looked fine but Terry was concerned about an
abundant level of struvite crystals in Max's urine. Regarding the urine, no
calcium oxalate crystals were evident, the PH was 8, and there were no red
blood cells evident. Terry is culturing a sample of Max's urine to
see if Max has a urinary tract infection.


First, thanks for responding Steve!

This is really too high. Bearing in mind that each pH is not exactly a
simple scale. Something that is the pH of 8 is greatly more alkaline
than a pH of 7.5.

Yes....it is a log to the base 10 scale.

It would not be surprising to find struvite crystals
in urine with this pH. Target pH for u/d for example is 7.4, with a
range of 7.1-7.7. While 7.7 seems only a few tenths of a point from
8.0, it is actually quite a big difference. One of the difficulties
with pH test strips is the inability to measure the "tenths" of a
point. The difference between 8.0 and 7.7 is not always easily
detectable. (Marshall, I'm not sure about the strips you are using as
I have never looked at them, so I'm referring to commonly availble pH
strips.)

The strips are graduated to the closest .5 PH.

When Max was on Canine U/D his urine PH was 8 and he had
a slight amount of struvite crystals.

When I had him on U/D, I had hydrated his food so he
was forced to drink at least 3/4 of a cup of water per day.
(This meant that he wanted to be walked about once every
5.5 hrs.)

When I switched to this homemade diet, I thought, silly me,
that all the water in the pea/rice combo would be sufficient.
Though I regularly tested his urine PH, I did not much think
about urine color.

I'm happy I brought him to the vet for testing. Dr. Remillard
recommended that Max be examined by a vet every 3 months.

On learning about the crystals, I immediately terminated
potassium citrate supplementation and began hydrating his food.
Now his urine barely has any color. Before he would finish urinating
in say 4 sec now it takes 9 or 10 sec. I plan on adjust the PH
to a range near 7.

This is all good news for Max whom I love. The bad news is that
though I walk him well at 11 PM; he is now eager to be walked
at 5 AM! :-)

(As for the urine, I "catch" it in front of the vet who immediately
gives it to his tech for analysis.)

As for getting up at 5 AM, some readers may find the attached of interest.

Thanks for your support Steve!

--Marshall

A Cure for SAD? 3/26/2001

Winter came and as usual, around Chanukah, I began feeling depressed:
feeling sort of tired and disoriented as if I had just gotten off an
intercontinental flight. This winter, however, I have found, so far, a
surprising way of eliminating my "seasonal affective disorder" that does not
involve sitting in front of a bank of lights.

I usually go to bed at about 11 PM and awake at 7:30 AM. But a set of
unusual cirmstances resulted in my arising at 5 AM or 5:30 AM, eating
breakfast, reading the newspaper, doing some work, and then retiring to
catch up on my sleep. My wife noticed that on the days I awoke early
(exposed to ordinary artifical light) I did not report being depressed
whereas on the days that I "slept in" I reported being depressed. To be
sure, arising early was initially difficult but after having done this for
about two weeks I'm "naturally" arising, often singing upbeat songs as I
prepare breakfast.

When I described this phenomenon to a friend who also had reported suffering
from seasonal affective disorder, I was surprised to learn that he had
discovered the same "cure." In his case, he could not return immediately to
sleep because he had to teach but he did find some time during the morning
to catch up on sleep.

I'm a research psychologist and I know that these "findings" if documented
would not impress a journal review board, but they suggest that people who
suffer from seasonal affective disorder may want to try altering their sleep
patterns, in particular arising early for a week or so.

--Marshall

PS: I found myself arising early in the morning primarily because my dog had
developed a bladder infection and I was concerned that he might urinate in
the house. The infection is cured but I continue to arise early!

PS: (Added 10/18/03) I have come to recognize that there are a number of
features which occur together, are "confounded" in the procedure that I
described above: I arise early, I eat breakfast, and I often talk with my
wife. All of these "zeitgebers" may force my biorhythms to "kick in"
early each morning. See the discussion of "entrainment" below.

http://www.bio.warwick.ac.uk/andrewM...ntrainment.htm


Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201

http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire

In article (Steve Crane) writes:
(Marshall Dermer) wrote in message ...
Max is our beloved 6 year-old Havanese, who weighs about 17.4 lbs
and has a history of calcium oxalate crystals in his urine and who,
about one year ago, had three calcium oxalate uroliths removed
from his bladder.

He has been on a diet formulated by a veterinary nutritionist
for about two months and previously was on the Strombeck pea/rice diet to
prevent calcium oxalate uroliths, and earlier still he was on Hill's
Canine U/D.

Today, I brought Max to our veterinarian, Terry Jacobs, for examination.
Max's overall health status looked fine but Terry was concerned about an
abundant level of struvite crystals in Max's urine. Regarding the urine, no
calcium oxalate crystals were evident, the PH was 8, and there were no red
blood cells evident. Terry is culturing a sample of Max's urine to
see if Max has a urinary tract infection.


First, thanks for responding Steve!

This is really too high. Bearing in mind that each pH is not exactly a
simple scale. Something that is the pH of 8 is greatly more alkaline
than a pH of 7.5.

Yes....it is a log to the base 10 scale.

It would not be surprising to find struvite crystals
in urine with this pH. Target pH for u/d for example is 7.4, with a
range of 7.1-7.7. While 7.7 seems only a few tenths of a point from
8.0, it is actually quite a big difference. One of the difficulties
with pH test strips is the inability to measure the "tenths" of a
point. The difference between 8.0 and 7.7 is not always easily
detectable. (Marshall, I'm not sure about the strips you are using as
I have never looked at them, so I'm referring to commonly availble pH
strips.)

The strips are graduated to the closest .5 PH.

When Max was on Canine U/D his urine PH was 8 and he had
a slight amount of struvite crystals.

When I had him on U/D, I had hydrated his food so he
was forced to drink at least 3/4 of a cup of water per day.
(This meant that he wanted to be walked about once every
5.5 hrs.)

When I switched to this homemade diet, I thought, silly me,
that all the water in the pea/rice combo would be sufficient.
Though I regularly tested his urine PH, I did not much think
about urine color.

I'm happy I brought him to the vet for testing. Dr. Remillard
recommended that Max be examined by a vet every 3 months.

On learning about the crystals, I immediately terminated
potassium citrate supplementation and began hydrating his food.
Now his urine barely has any color. Before he would finish urinating
in say 4 sec now it takes 9 or 10 sec. I plan on adjust the PH
to a range near 7.

This is all good news for Max whom I love. The bad news is that
though I walk him well at 11 PM; he is now eager to be walked
at 5 AM! :-)

(As for the urine, I "catch" it in front of the vet who immediately
gives it to his tech for analysis.)

As for getting up at 5 AM, some readers may find the attached of interest.

Thanks for your support Steve!

--Marshall

A Cure for SAD? 3/26/2001

Winter came and as usual, around Chanukah, I began feeling depressed:
feeling sort of tired and disoriented as if I had just gotten off an
intercontinental flight. This winter, however, I have found, so far, a
surprising way of eliminating my "seasonal affective disorder" that does not
involve sitting in front of a bank of lights.

I usually go to bed at about 11 PM and awake at 7:30 AM. But a set of
unusual cirmstances resulted in my arising at 5 AM or 5:30 AM, eating
breakfast, reading the newspaper, doing some work, and then retiring to
catch up on my sleep. My wife noticed that on the days I awoke early
(exposed to ordinary artifical light) I did not report being depressed
whereas on the days that I "slept in" I reported being depressed. To be
sure, arising early was initially difficult but after having done this for
about two weeks I'm "naturally" arising, often singing upbeat songs as I
prepare breakfast.

When I described this phenomenon to a friend who also had reported suffering
from seasonal affective disorder, I was surprised to learn that he had
discovered the same "cure." In his case, he could not return immediately to
sleep because he had to teach but he did find some time during the morning
to catch up on sleep.

I'm a research psychologist and I know that these "findings" if documented
would not impress a journal review board, but they suggest that people who
suffer from seasonal affective disorder may want to try altering their sleep
patterns, in particular arising early for a week or so.

--Marshall

PS: I found myself arising early in the morning primarily because my dog had
developed a bladder infection and I was concerned that he might urinate in
the house. The infection is cured but I continue to arise early!

PS: (Added 10/18/03) I have come to recognize that there are a number of
features which occur together, are "confounded" in the procedure that I
described above: I arise early, I eat breakfast, and I often talk with my
wife. All of these "zeitgebers" may force my biorhythms to "kick in"
early each morning. See the discussion of "entrainment" below.

http://www.bio.warwick.ac.uk/andrewM...ntrainment.htm


Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201

http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire

In article ,
(Marshall Dermer) wrote:

This is all good news for Max whom I love. The bad news is that
though I walk him well at 11 PM; he is now eager to be walked
at 5 AM! :-)


I'm sure you'll continue to move in the right direction to get Max
through his stone & PH problems, and I appreciate the updates. Our crew
sends their best to Max & you.