pepsi said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

I think where the hangup is, is with the use of the word
"professional."

By definition, the word "profession" involves making a living -
making a decent profit. If you can point me to a pet dog
breeder who titles, properly health checks the lines, and
thoroughly places (and follows up on) the puppies and *still*
makes a living breeding dogs, then I'll retract my implication
that "professional breeder" connotes "puppy mill."

Well, you have already ignored the part of my post that
said I was talking about another newsgroup.

I didn't. You said "rec.pets.dogs", which is a place holder for
the rec.pets.dogs hierarchy. In itself, rec.pets.dogs is not a
newsgroup - that some news servers carry after the split doesn't
make it a newsgroup (for example, it's not carried on the
server that many of us here use). I assumed that you were using
rec.pets.dogs as a convient shorthand for referring to all of
the rpd groups.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

great idea!!!!!!!!!!! Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The brains in this group
all put together could not be seen by any human eye. Right wing KKK
members I think.................

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:46:51 -0600, Mary H Healey
wrote:

wrote:
What's your name for the right breeder?

Hobbyist. Or fancier.

One that does it for a living
but doesn't do inbreeding and what you would associated a puppy mill
with? I think where the hangup is, is with the use of the word
"professional."

No, the hangup is the idea that "does it for a living" is compatible
with the best interests of the dogs. When a conflict arises between
what's best for the dog and what's necessary for financial survival,
creditors complain louder than dogs.

FWIW, inbreeding alone is not a sign of a puppymill or BYB or "bad" breeder.

In my own breed, I associate "right breeder" with someone who has
registered dogs (makes researching pedigree and backgrounds easier) with
a reputable registry, who does some kind of activity with those dogs
(and usually two or more activities), who health tests (eyes, ears,
hips, elbows), who uses the researchable health data bases that are
available for *all* their dogs (not just the best ones), and who use
incentives to encourage even "pet" owners to have health tests done and
recorded. I also associate "right breeder" with someone who proudly
names and refers often to their mentor, who has pleasant relations with
other breeders, and who will mentor or help others that want to learn
more about the breed.

I'm looking for someone who knows where their puppies are and how
they're doing, even if a decade or more has passed. Someone who has a
very strong idea of what's ideal (form, temperament, activity, health)
and breeds toward that ideal. Someone who forms a close tie to their
puppy buyers. Someone who takes back dogs of their breeding when asked,
and who supports rescue instead of burdening it.

Someone who invests that much of themselves in their dogs is unlikely to
be "making a living" on puppies, don't you think?

Thank you for your response.

My sister fits almost all of what you said, although this is her first
and last time breeding her Weim. She, like a lot of what people call
"backyard breeders," went into it to make money. She had no idea it
was going to result in numerous vet bills, staying up all night as if
SHE had given birth to septuplets, and the worry that the 4 remaining,
now 3-month-old pups might never be placed. She changed vets twice
before she found one that would give her puppies the attention and
care that she gave them. She turned down a few potential buyers
because weims need more attention than most breeds. She doesn't even
want money for the pups now, just a good home.
pepsi

On 25 Jan 2005 17:13:08 GMT, Rocky wrote:

pepsi said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

I think where the hangup is, is with the use of the word
"professional."

By definition, the word "profession" involves making a living -
making a decent profit. If you can point me to a pet dog
breeder who titles, properly health checks the lines, and
thoroughly places (and follows up on) the puppies and *still*
makes a living breeding dogs, then I'll retract my implication
that "professional breeder" connotes "puppy mill."

I got my first Weimaraner from such a place, but it was in the 70's,
so I can't give you a reference. They bred them for showing and
hunting, but I won't go as far as saying it was not a puppy mill, as I
seem to have a different idea of what that is. I have just always
associated puppy mills with those seedy places that breed their dogs
constantly, often inside family lines, for pet shops.
The people I got my dog from did number their litters by letter and
all the dogs were named with their "litter letter, ." Mine was an E.
I named him Ezekial and called him Zeke. My sister got a dog there
years later and it was from the H litter, named Hildy.
I was still relying on my parents back then, so I can't tell you much
as far as what they charged, although, I can tell you that all of
their dogs were adults and trained, either for show or for sport. I
got the only puppy, against my dad's wishes. He was looking for a
trained hunting dog. The owner of the place was very reluctant to let
us buy "her baby."

Well, you have already ignored the part of my post that
said I was talking about another newsgroup.

I didn't. You said "rec.pets.dogs", which is a place holder for
the rec.pets.dogs hierarchy. In itself, rec.pets.dogs is not a
newsgroup - that some news servers carry after the split doesn't
make it a newsgroup (for example, it's not carried on the
server that many of us here use). I assumed that you were using
rec.pets.dogs as a convient shorthand for referring to all of
the rpd groups.

Actually, I just subscribed to both groups and that was the one I had
the most insults come from. I'm sure there are people here that read
both groups, but I came to the groups to get information and, like
Mark, ran into a wall. I'm glad some of you have decided to let me
gain a little knowledge.
pepsi

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 04:05:43 GMT, "Christy"
wrote:
Funny how many times he mentioned licking balls in his latter
post - I think somebody's jealous...

LOL!! As a man thinketh...