On 16 Feb 2005 07:33:09 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
But that's a dog that had epilepsy. I am still wondering why a dog
that has never had epilepsy, a head injury or any kind of illness,
other than a bout with MMM several years ago, would at age 9 begin
having one seizure once a year.

Greta started having seizures at 9 years old, but in her
case the vet was able to diagnose a pituitary tumor. She
was clustering, as well, and needed to remain medicated
throughout the remainder of her life, so aside from the late
onset her situation was very different from Tasha's.

Yes. The vet mentioned the possibility of a brain tumor, but I think
that's doubtful since it's been 2 1/2 years and there have been no
signs or signs or symptoms of a brain tumor and no increase in the
frequency of seizures. I doubt that the seizures are from low blood
sugar, either, unless for some reason she experiences low blood sugar
once a year. I guess it's just One Of Those Things.

How did the vet treat the pituitary tumor?

Mustang Sally

On 16 Feb 2005 09:56:40 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
How did the vet treat the pituitary tumor?

We didn't, since he felt that there was no way to treat it
without surgery and the surgery would have been very risky,
especially for such an elderly dog. What we did instead was
treat the pretty large cluster of symptoms, and we were
fortunate to have an excellent clinician at Cornell who was
both methodical and dogged in working through it all. In
addition to the seizures she had a bunch of Cushingoid
symptoms and unrelated to the tumor she was also
hypothyroid. So she was being medicated for excessive water
consumption, a chronic UTI, hypothyroidism, and a couple of
other things that escape my mind at the moment. In the last
couple of years of her life she was permanently on 5
medications. She was a real trooper about going to the vet.

I didn't think it would be treatable without surgery. I remember now
that Greta had Cushingoid symptoms and a bunch of other problems. Did
you have scans done, or do you know based on her symptoms whether the
tumor grew? It's always helpful when a dog with multiple medical
problems is good about going to the vet. Our first epileptic
Greyhound, Spencer, was like that, but it could have been because he
had some brain damage from an episode of status that occurred just
after we got him, before his Pb level was even therapeutic, and he
tended not to care much where he was. He was on pretty high doses of
Pb, too, along with KBr. Our other seizure dogs are alarmed if not
frightened by their seizures, but I doubt Spencer was even aware of
them. I remember one time when he was having a cluster, I'd given him
the liquid Pb, and he doing his normal post-ictal wandering which
sometimes lasted for hours. I dozed off on the couch and woke up to
find him with his head stuck in the blinds on the front door. I have
no idea how long he stood there like that, not making a sound or
struggling, just standing there.

Tasha is a typical Siberian at the vet. No stoicism at all, and she
sometimes starts to vocalize shortly after arrival. Our vet has techs
do "farm calls" to draw blood for heartworm tests for a couple of
clients with multiple dogs, and the Sibes are notorious, and laughed
at, for their behavior. It wasn't fun when she had MMM.

Mustang Sally

On 16 Feb 2005 10:30:49 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:

Gosh, that dog had a mess of health problems. She was a dog
among dogs, though.

Kind of argues against the hybrid vigor theory, doesn't it?

I have
no idea how long he stood there like that, not making a sound or
struggling, just standing there.

I always feel kind of guilty about laughing at that sort of
thing, but yeah, post-ictal behavior can be kind of odd.
Greta used to get the zoomies which really wasn't like her
at all. We were all sort of, like, "Go Greta, go!" Oh well.

I don't recall laughing at the time, probably because I was half
asleep, but I've laughed just about every time I've remembered it.
Spencer's post-ictal periods were almost worse than his seizures. One
time he got behind a chair and was trying like crazy to get through
the wall, and he did that once in a closet too. His post-ictal
periods could last for hours, and the seizures left him with a
ravenous appetite accompanied by supercanine strength and a certain
cunning that definitely was not there normally. He'd open cupboards
and eat entire boxes of dog biscuits, which of course would exacerbate
his chronic diarrhea. We have big plastic dog food bins with lids
that screw on and are supposed to be impossible for any dog to open.
The manufacturer sent us a free one when DH sent him a picture of what
Spencer did to it in the process of opening it. One time Spence
opened a cupboard, removed a can of dog food and actually chewed it
open. Yep, that's right, by continuously chewing on the middle of the
can, he crushed it enough that the food apparently oozed out, and the
amazing part, particularly for Spencer, is that he did it without
injuring himself. The can was completely flat, and completely empty,
when we found it. Ah, the memories.

I've been very fortunate in that most of my dogs have been
pretty stoical. Emmett was in for his annual checkup
yesterday and was a real gentleman about some major
palpations/manipulations (he paces at low speeds and I asked
the vet to check him out). Duncan, however, got mean and
was a real problem. Saber doesn't really misbehave but gets
awfully vocal, which brings people running to see what's
going on (he's got a very deep, very very loud rooroo).

The three Siberians from working lines are all very stoic
about the vet. I have no idea if that's a genetic thing or
what.

That's interesting, I wonder if there's any significance to it. I
should amend what I said before about our Sibes, because Mukluk is
pretty stoic. He had heartworm treatment years ago and never gave
them any problems. Boomer had heartworm treatment too, and then DIC
after he was neutered, but he was too sick to give them any trouble
about all the needles he was subjected to then. He's absolutely
terrible about nail trimming, though. None of them object to being
palpated and nobody gets snappish, but they do get vocal.

How did Emmett check out?

Mustang Sally

On 16 Feb 2005 14:03:51 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Rocky wrote:
Gad, neither have I, especially the food binge. Even foody
Rocky has no interest in eating during his post-ictal, though he
does go blind for a while (maybe his sense of smell was also
affected?).

Greta was hungry and especially thirsty after a seizure, but
the phase would pass in about 1/2 hour and she certainly
wasn't biting through cans or anything like that. That's
amazing.

He was unique, to say the least. I took the can to the vet and asked
if they'd ever seen anything like it, and they hadn't.

Mustang Sally

On 16 Feb 2005 13:37:12 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

Ah, the memories.

Wow. I've never heard of post-ictal behavior that extreme.
And that kind of counters the image of greyhounds as little
angels, doesn't it? Maybe it's because I don't know many
but I've never heard of a destructive greyhound before (btw,
I really liked the greyhound at Westminster last night).

I wasn't home to watch. How did it do? The only sighthound that
seems to get into best of breed is the Afghan. Greyhounds, when
destructive, are usually so on a small scale - - e.g., Blue loves to
shred paper towels, magazines, etc. It's a mess, but not really that
destructive. Spencer couldn't be crated because of his chronic
diarrhea (and that's a whole 'nother story). So the dogs were
separated when we weren't home, but Spencer was loose. Let's just say
that our house was not fun to come home to if Spencer had a seizure
while we were gone (which was rare, because he almost always started a
cluster during the night). One time I'd taken DH for some same-day
surgery early in the morning, and arranged for his brother to let the
dogs out before he went to work. Came home earlier than expected, to
see BIL hosing something off in the backyard. He says "somebody had a
shitstorm in there." He'd had a seizure, and in his post-ictal
wanderings, had walked through his diarrhea many, many times...poopy
pawprints everywhere.

How did Emmett check out?

Nothing obvious other than crappy conformation. I may get
his hips x-rayed at some point but she didn't find any
reason to suspect a problem.

Is he the one that doesn't like to pull, or is that Saber? We've got
some pretty crappy BYB conformation in our Sibes. Tasha is
cow-hocked, Mukluk has bad knees, and Boomer looks like a rocking
horse when he canters.

Mustang Sally

On 16 Feb 2005 19:09:33 GMT, Rocky wrote:

Melinda Shore said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Greta was hungry and especially thirsty after a seizure,

As is Rocky after he finishes the post-ictal. My reading of
Sally's Spencer post was that he attacked the food during his
post-ictal. I may have been misreading her.

If you mean "attacked" in the sense that he was ravenously hungry,
yes. He seemed to always be hungry and nothing food-related could be
left out or even in cupboards that he could reach. After a seizure,
though, he'd go on a quest for food, and there was no keeping food
safe from him.

but
the phase would pass in about 1/2 hour and she certainly
wasn't biting through cans or anything like that. That's
amazing.

Rocky once chewed up a beer can (not epilepsy related), spitting
out every piece, but a food can certainly is amazing.

Especially with the food still in it.

Mustang Sally

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:23:18 GMT, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

What are you, the clock police? :}

I'm not the Agent 2.0 Instructor either, but, silly me, I like to help
out whenever I can.

There's a reason for my smileys.

:}

--
Leah Roberts, Family Dog Trainer
It's A Dog's World
http://hometown.aol.com/dfrntdrums/m...age/index.html
Get Healthy, Build Your Immune System, Lose Weight
http://re-vita.net/dfrntdrums

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:07:28 -0500, sighthounds & siberians
wrote:

It's kind of unusual to have a period of hypoxia
or anoxia sufficient to cause brain damage without knowing it, though,
and anoxia/hypoxia doesn't just happen without a cause. I suppose
it's possible that Tasha bruised her brain during husky wrestling. I
still think her seizure pattern is strange, though.

Who knows what happened? Anoxic brain injuries can be caused by
strokes as well. Or it could be something completely different. Damn
dogs are so inconsiderate, they never keep us fully advised on what
they are up to or getting in to!

--
Paula
"The smell of burning rubber chickens and
singed roller-skating chimps will teach a man to hate."
---swt