"Child" wrote in message
...
In both breeds, its often the winningest dogs owners who blackens a nose,
trims ear hair, chalks something or uses styling products to make a fluffy
dog, even though those things are not allowed. My personal opinion is
that
the judges are blowing it by not pulling the dog with the obvious styling
gel poof out of the ring. The ethical owners who follow the rules get
screwed.

Are these dogs winning *despite* bag conformation, or do they have good
conformation AND against-the-rules grooming? I've never been to a dog
conformation show, but I've showed a horse in halter, and the judge placed
the horses according to conformation and not make-up. There was a wide range
of gimmicks and make-up usage in the class, from none (mine) to heavy (the
horse who placed last). My horse came in second, the top horse being also
natural. I don't think grooming fools a judge worth his salt, and if they
spent their time DQing every made-up dog or horse, it wouldn't be any fun
for the handlers OR the judges.

-
Alice

"Coyote" wrote:

I've never been to a dog
conformation show, but I've showed a horse in halter, and the judge placed
the horses according to conformation

Yes, but horses don't have long coats. G
And as regards things like using Sharpie on the nose, it's not a matter
of "makeup", but of hiding faults - which is also done in horses, to a
somewhat more limited extent, since there's a bit less that can be done.

Shelly & The Boys wrote:

Unfortunately, there aren't many bench shows anymore. I think there's a
big one coming up in Chicago in the few weeks/month? Pain in the
butt for the handlers/dogs, but GREAT for spectators.

Yep, the IKC. I will be there all four days, the first and last are
unbenched, thank the dog gods and goddesses. Thist last month I've been
making my dog stay in his crate, to get him used to it again (our car is
so small, his crate doesn't fit, so he gets a harness there). I've no
idea if I'm going to be able to get him to pee on sawdust.

gah.

natalie

oh, the shows runs from the 25th to the 28th, the benched days are the
26th and 27th.
--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker

Sionnach wrote:
Hm, well... I have three dogs of my own, and it baffles me - not just the
idiocy of using things like hairspray, nail polish, dye, etc. to make dogs
look "prettier", but the entire concept that what a dog looks like is
something worthy of having a competition about.
Form follows function, not vice versa.


Yeah, but you have wash and go dogs, right? I have a breed that is that,
and if I forget to brush him or even bathe him before a show, I don't have
to worry aobut anything. If I forget to trim his tail (he's docked, his
hair grows beyond the dock, you're supposed to trim it to a rounded shape)
it's no sweat off my brow, because it just doesn't matter in my breed.

Those who have breeds that need near daily grooming could really see it
differently.

natalie, queen of neglecting to brush her dog more than once a month.
Except show weeks.

--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker

Debbie the Dogged wrote:
At one of the very first dog shows I attended there wa a woman totally
engrossed in grooming her toy poodle: mousse, hairspray, the works.
There was something in her demeanor that made me wonder if she actually
liked the dog or just thought of it as a commodity: then when she was
done she kissed it on the nose, which made me feel a whole lot better
about the whole thing.

At one show, unbenched, there was this woman working on her Cav. She was
talking to my mother about the breed, and said it was the stupidist thing
she ever encountered. I sure hope that she was the handler, and not the
owner.

But, with your experience, the dogs are taught to stand or sit while
grooming and tolerate what's going on. It is somewhat like getting a dog
on for some activity, but the opposite in that you want them to stay.
They have limited time to groom, so they have to do it as fast as they can
and that leaves them no time for snuggles or cute words and such. A lot
of the groomers also have more than one dog to groom, for the same ring
time. So they are tight on time to begin with.

natalie

--

What fresh hell is this?
--- Dorothy Parker

"Coyote" wrote in message
.. .
| "Child" wrote in message
| ...
| In both breeds, its often the winningest dogs owners who blackens a
nose,
| trims ear hair, chalks something or uses styling products to make a
fluffy
| dog, even though those things are not allowed. My personal opinion is
| that
| the judges are blowing it by not pulling the dog with the obvious
styling
| gel poof out of the ring. The ethical owners who follow the rules get
| screwed.
|
| Are these dogs winning *despite* bag conformation, or do they have good
| conformation AND against-the-rules grooming?

Well, it depends - in one case I am thinking of, the dog that wins IS
lovely, and is handled by a very experienced handler. But in other cases its
not so - In a keeshond the coat practically IS the conformation so if you
use enough mousse to stand up a falling ruff, thats a big deal. Its not a
working dog expected to have a working dog gait - movement isn't as
important as some other breeds.

|I've never been to a dog
| conformation show, but I've showed a horse in halter, and the judge placed
| the horses according to conformation and not make-up. There was a wide
range
| of gimmicks and make-up usage in the class, from none (mine) to heavy (the
| horse who placed last). My horse came in second, the top horse being also
| natural. I don't think grooming fools a judge worth his salt, and if they
| spent their time DQing every made-up dog or horse, it wouldn't be any fun
| for the handlers OR the judges.


I think it would even the playing field, making competition more fun for
those who DO follow the rules.

"Tee" wrote in message
...
"Robin Nuttall" wrote in message
news:jZpQd.3634$tl3.1910@attbi_s02...

Now I do know people who don't care about livability because their dogs
live in a kennel. But that's different than what you're saying.

I've heard of a handful of breeders in my breed whose dogs have to go on
medications when they come off the road. The dogs are so used to living
in kennels and have little to no socialization with the public that they
tend towards OCDs and other types of anxiety related behaviors when
introduced to a normal environment. This may come back to haunt me later
as I haven't walked in those breeders' shoes but IMO breeders who allow
their show dogs to live in kennels or crates close to 24/7 for their show
careers are no better than puppymillers who keep their dogs penned up all
the time. I think a chunk of such breeders are those who send their dogs
off to live with handlers and the handlers end up with a houseful of dogs
who get fed, watered & groomed but receive little attention or exercise.

--
Tara

Boy do I agree with you! I could have sent my girl with her co-owner to
Texas dog shows last year and stayed home (saving lots of money). But, I
took 2 weeks off from work and drove from Washington to Texas just so I
could be the one to feed, exercise and take care of my dog. If I hadn't, I
know she would have been left in a crate most of the day.

René

"Sionnach" wrote in message
...

"diannes" wrote:

Basically this is what things come down to - misleading's OK;
outright lying is not. As one example, in a coated breed like
mine there's about a million things you can do to disguise
faults.

I suppose that depends on your definitions of "OK"; to me, doing ANYTHING
to disguise a fault, in a competition which allegedly determines what dogs
are worthy of being bred, seems pretty damn unethical.
Sorry if that seems harsh, but it's honestly the way I feel about it.


One of the reasons I like my breed (Rhodesian ridgeback) so well is it is
very hard to hide anything. And grooming before a show is so easy. The
night before she gets a bath, toenails trimmed, ears cleaned if needed,
teeth cleaned if needed. Day of show: a wiping down with a dry or lightly
spritzed towel.

René