On 8 Mar 2005 06:30:35 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

I meant to add - are you doing any TRAINING with them? Class would be

a great place for both of them to get work in each other's presence.
That's what leadership is about.

We live in a very small town. Very small. No training classes we
could attend. We get this all the time, believe me. It's a one-hour
drive to buy non-grocery-store dog food.

We do take them out on their leashes and - dang it, what's that thing
called - not a collar, the thing that wraps around them. Can't recall,
you know what i mean. We practice heel, sit, stay, and we're working
on lay down.

You're discovering the downside of getting littermates (there are
many). Doing individual things with them is really important and you
haven't gotten off to a great start by having them share a crate, so
remedy that asap.

Well, we wanted two so that they would not be lonely during the day -
we both work, although one of us always comes home for lunch to be with
them. I've seen what one lonely and destructive puppy can do.

Structure, respect, teaching - all good things. Hitting on the bottom

or anywhere else - not good things. Scaring dogs isn't the idea -
teaching them is.

I don't want to scare the dog. Just get her attention. I have to
disagree on how effective this is. I'm 43 years old. I got spanked,
etc. You know the yada yada.

You seem to have a reason why just about every suggestion offered
won't work, so why don't you just go ahead and do what you want, and
live with the results?

Mustang Sally

I would crate her if you weren't supervising her. But frankly.
crating a
dog with resource guarding doesn't fix the behavior.
I'd feed her while standing there with her on a leash. Give her a
leash pop
every time she gives an innappropriate glare. This won't take long,
because
if she's distracted and doesn't eat, while you are standing there on
leash,
pick up her dish till next feeding time.
She'll get the picture that her behavior isn't working. You aren't
allowing
it. And when she's eating, it's HER time, and she needs to be worried
about
feeding herself instead of what her brother is doing.

OK, that makes sense. To the other responders - OK, I get the picture.
Watch them while they eat. Before my coffee, even. Argh. But ok,
I'll do it. Two crates. Got it. Leash in the house while they roam?
Uh, prolly not. Too many breakables. And no, they don't get ON
furniture, the lamps are floor-standing, ah, forget it.

As far as a swat on the bottom - well I think we'll have to agree to
disagree on that one. I was raised different. I understand it is a
hot button, so I won't mention it again. I appreciate your point of
view, and especially all your good advice.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Send your wife. Go between work and church. Go on your lunch hour.

You have no idea where we live. YOU try it sometime. It's kind of an
aggravation of ours - well-meaning people keep saying 'well drive over
and get one (one whatever we're talking about). Well, 'drive right
over' doesn't work. We're in the sticks.

Don't have bedding in the crates, wipe them out with a paper towel if
needed, but I can't
imagine why it would be.

We put some old soft blankets in the crate, which we wash once a week.
I'm not letting them sleep on cold hard plastic.

You must not have Sonic restaurants where you live. You PARK and eat.
Still very messy compared to eating at home.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On 8 Mar 2005 06:30:35 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

We do take them out on their leashes and - dang it, what's that thing
called - not a collar, the thing that wraps around them. Can't recall,
you know what i mean. We practice heel, sit, stay, and we're working
on lay down.

Harness? Gentle Leader? Slip lead?

Well, we wanted two so that they would not be lonely during the day -
we both work, although one of us always comes home for lunch to be with
them. I've seen what one lonely and destructive puppy can do.

very common thought, but TWO puppies can really be destructive! I'm
all for multiple pets, don't get me wrong, but littermates mean more
than twice the work.

I don't want to scare the dog. Just get her attention. I have to
disagree on how effective this is. I'm 43 years old. I got spanked,
etc. You know the yada yada.

I understand this, but it's most likely to backfire on you. I got
spanked as a child too - can't say it did a lot of good for me
discipline-wise and surely didn't make me fond of the idea that my
parent's would do that to me. The THREAT of being spanked (a concept
dogs don't get) was the more powerful part, if anything.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

"Janet B" wrote in message
...
On 8 Mar 2005 05:47:11 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

If I try to physically
correct the female, the male comes to her rescue - or thinks it is
playtime and jumps up on my licking my face, etc. I've tried pushing
her back to her food bowl and him back to his, but they both enjoy this
and think I'm doing some new daddy dance. Makes 'em all waggly.

Crates or tethering would stop this.

I agree that they need separate crates. However I'm curious as to why both
dogs should be fed in crates rather than just the female dog. Or why not
remove her food as a consequence while allowing the male to eat? IOW as
soon as she starts the glaring she either gets her food taken away and is
prohibited from being able to reach his food bowl or even putting her in
timeout when she starts glaring?

I realize alot of people advise against using the crate for corrections but
I'm one of the few who uses them as such, when warranted, and find timeouts
to be a pretty good immediate correction method. Using the crates for
timeouts has not caused any negative association with the many dogs I've
done it with as they all still willingly go to them, nap in them, hang out
in them, etc.

I'm also thinking that singling out the female while keeping the male's
routine free can help to teach the female that the humans make the rules,
not her, although I may be attributing too much to the dog's way of
learning.


--
Tara

On 8 Mar 2005 06:34:40 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

And no, they don't get ON
furniture, the lamps are floor-standing, ah, forget it.


Guess you missed the wink and smile. Oh well......

But - if I can have a 16 week old 52# puppy here, with 2 62# dogs, 2
cats, and floor lamps (as well as lot's of other stuff), and have her
wearing a leash, I can't really figure out what the problem is.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:32:06 -0500, shelly
wrote:



if the dog(s) were tethered, there would be no opportunity for
either of them to chase the cat.

really, the cat shouldn't have to put up with dogs chasing it.
it's not fair.

Esther the Newf got tethered to a kitchen cabinet while I ate
breakfast, made dinner, etc. Only the first few days, while she
learned to not chase cats and to stay with me. The second half of the
week had her entering the kitchen with me, and flopping down in her
tether spot, sans tether, and no cat chasing. Quick learner and
pretty much the same pattern any pup has had. management.
leadership. effective training.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

You seem to have a reason why just about every suggestion offered
won't work, so why don't you just go ahead and do what you want, and
live with the results?
Mustang Sally

Actually, I have thanked everyone for their advice and intend to take
most of it, which I've also said. I am going to get a second crate as
soon as I can (ok, I'm not rushing over this second to get one, but I
will do it this week). I will try feeding them in their crates instead
of on the kitchen floor, although that seems kind of messy to me. I
will try keeping them on the leash and watching over them as they feed
to correct the evil eye when it occurs.

About the only thing I've objected to is not smacking their bottoms,
and I fully understand that's a hot button issue, so I'll shut up about
it. As to the suggestion that I leash them in the house, I only asked
if that didn't cause problems with flying furniture when I visualized
them dragging around lamps and such.

I asked for advice, then I asked for clarification where I did not
understand, I thanked everyone for their assistance, and I mentioned
that there were a couple of things I preferred not to change - but
nothing regarding the suggestions to stop the food guarding behavior.
I think I did pretty well, and I *do* sincerely appreciate all the
advice, even if I don't take ALL of it. I am certainly going to
implement most of it, and I said so.

Care to revise your nasty tone, Sally?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:39:55 -0500, "Tee"
wrote:

However I'm curious as to why both
dogs should be fed in crates rather than just the female dog.

I'm also thinking that singling out the female while keeping the male's
routine free can help to teach the female that the humans make the rules,
not her, although I may be attributing too much to the dog's way of
learning.

I think a crate may help the male feel safe and confident while
eating, and since the OP would rather not supervise, seems safer.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On 8 Mar 2005 06:38:26 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:



We put some old soft blankets in the crate, which we wash once a week.
I'm not letting them sleep on cold hard plastic.

Most of my dogs PREFER the "cold hard plastic"! But, just taking the
blankets out WHILE THEY EAT, isnt' a big deal.

You must not have Sonic restaurants where you live. You PARK and eat.
Still very messy compared to eating at home.

We do. Have never eaten in one though!

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos