on 2005-03-08 at 06:38 wrote:

You have no idea where we live. YOU try it sometime. It's
kind of an aggravation of ours - well-meaning people keep
saying 'well drive over and get one (one whatever we're
talking about). Well, 'drive right over' doesn't work.

so order one on-line and tether the dogs in the meantime.

We're in the sticks.

welcome to the club. i *do* know how to find my way to
civilization, though, especially when it's important. and,
*this* is important. you're dealing with a problem that can
escalate and quickly reach a flash point.

We put some old soft blankets in the crate, which we wash
once a week. I'm not letting them sleep on cold hard plastic.

believe me, it won't kill them. and, bending down and
removing the bedding while the dogs are eating won't kill
*you*.

You must not have Sonic restaurants where you live. You PARK
and eat. Still very messy compared to eating at home.

nope, i've never even *seen* a Sonic, um, "restaurant." i
live in the boonies, remember?

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/ (updated dailyish, apparently)

Harness? Gentle Leader? Slip lead?

Harness. Sorry, couldn't think of the word!!!

very common thought, but TWO puppies can really be destructive! I'm
all for multiple pets, don't get me wrong, but littermates mean more
than twice the work.

Well, it was well-meant, even if we did the wrong thing.

I got spanked as a child too - can't say it did a lot of good for me
discipline-wise and surely didn't make me fond of the idea that my
parent's would do that to me.

We're all different. Worked for me. Just saying.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On 8 Mar 2005 06:47:39 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:



Well, it was well-meant, even if we did the wrong thing.

It's usually very well meant, just problematic! Do consider treating
them more like individuals - they can become too reliant on each
other's presence. Even if it's just taking ONE of them in the car on
the long drive to civilization (like getting a Sonic burger!).


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

so order one on-line and tether the dogs in the meantime.

Well, I offered to drive over to Rocky Mount and get one this weekend,
that would be quicker. ???

welcome to the club. i *do* know how to find my way to civilization,
though, especially when it's important. and,
*this* is important. you're dealing with a problem that can escalate
and quickly reach a flash point.

I think we'll take the advice offered and watch over them while they
eat for awhile, with them wearing their leashes. Sounds good to me.
Flashpoint? Doubt that, I weigh 270 pounds, and I'm a former Marine.
These guys couldn't hurt me if they wanted to, and I'll stop them from
hurting each other.

believe me, it won't kill them. and, bending down and removing the
bedding while the dogs are eating won't kill *you*.

I said I weigh 270. Bending over just MIGHT kill me! (grin)

nope, i've never even *seen* a Sonic, um, "restaurant." i live in the
boonies, remember?

Apparently not in the Southern boonies. Ever buddy has a Sonic and a
Walmart ever third town round these parts.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

on 2005-03-08 at 06:53 wrote:

Well, I offered to drive over to Rocky Mount and get one this
weekend, that would be quicker. ???

whichever is easiest for you, as long as in the meantime
you're managing the situation.

I think we'll take the advice offered and watch over them
while they eat for awhile, with them wearing their leashes.
Sounds good to me. Flashpoint? Doubt that, I weigh 270
pounds, and I'm a former Marine. These guys couldn't hurt me
if they wanted to, and I'll stop them from hurting each
other.

you might be surprised at how quickly things can escalate if
you aren't paying attention or aren't right there to put a
stop to the snarking. you've said you'll keep a closer eye on
things, though, so that shouldn't come to pass.

another thought about resource guarding and feeding... if it
were me, i'd probably feed the male in the crate and take the
female to another room (one-on-one time is vital when you're
raising litter mates!) and work with her while the male is
eating. work with the female on teaching and proofing
obedience behaviors or tricks, using her kibble as training
treats. why? this will teach her two things: 1) she must
mind her Ps and Qs in order to get tasty treats and 2) good
stuff comes from *you*. this will help build that leadership
you were asking about. it'll teach her to look to you for
direction (hopefully lessening the "need" to smack her
bottom) and it'll strengthen her bond to you.

I said I weigh 270. Bending over just MIGHT kill me! (grin)

okay, use a yard-stick to shove the bedding to the back of the
crate before putting the bowl down.

Apparently not in the Southern boonies. Ever buddy has a
Sonic and a Walmart ever third town round these parts.

i must live in one of the two towns that were skipped over.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/ (updated dailyish, apparently)

Janet B wrote in
:

Esther the Newf got tethered to a kitchen cabinet while I ate
breakfast, made dinner, etc.

Is Esther still there?

Did you find her to be an FCR in a shaggy suit?

My Golden foster is due to arrive in two weeks, although her official owner
is having a last-minute attack of, "no - I DO have time to raise this puppy
right now! Really, I do!"

We'll see.

Still hoping for a black one in the summer in any event,

--
Kate
and Storm the FCR
arfenarf at hotmail dot com

On 8 Mar 2005 15:10:16 GMT, KWBrown wrote:


Is Esther still there?

Did you find her to be an FCR in a shaggy suit?

Well, as far as affection goes, yes. But what a slug! Of course, I
*DO* live with Franklin, who is a speed demon! She was very playful
in the yard though and a lot of fun - I was very fond of her. She
went home Sunday, and while I miss her, my younger cat does not and
her owners are happy to have her back.

And.... just in time. We had a total of about 8" of snow last week.
Yesterday was 70 degrees and it was almost all gone (except for piles
where we shoveled). Mud city. Only today is 32, it's snowing like
mad, and everything is white again. damn B'more weather! I liked
yesterday!


My Golden foster is due to arrive in two weeks, although her official owner
is having a last-minute attack of, "no - I DO have time to raise this puppy
right now! Really, I do!"

We'll see.

Still hoping for a black one in the summer in any event,


Can't wait to hear stories and will keep fingers crossed for a black
pup this summer.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On 8 Mar 2005 06:44:01 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

You seem to have a reason why just about every suggestion offered
won't work, so why don't you just go ahead and do what you want, and
live with the results?
Mustang Sally

Actually, I have thanked everyone for their advice and intend to take
most of it, which I've also said. I am going to get a second crate as
soon as I can (ok, I'm not rushing over this second to get one, but I
will do it this week). I will try feeding them in their crates instead
of on the kitchen floor, although that seems kind of messy to me. I
will try keeping them on the leash and watching over them as they feed
to correct the evil eye when it occurs.

About the only thing I've objected to is not smacking their bottoms,
and I fully understand that's a hot button issue, so I'll shut up about
it. As to the suggestion that I leash them in the house, I only asked
if that didn't cause problems with flying furniture when I visualized
them dragging around lamps and such.

I asked for advice, then I asked for clarification where I did not
understand, I thanked everyone for their assistance, and I mentioned
that there were a couple of things I preferred not to change - but
nothing regarding the suggestions to stop the food guarding behavior.
I think I did pretty well, and I *do* sincerely appreciate all the
advice, even if I don't take ALL of it. I am certainly going to
implement most of it, and I said so.

Care to revise your nasty tone, Sally?

No, thanks. I don't think it was particularly nasty, though I have no
doubt you didn't care for it. Thanking everyone for their advice
isn't the issue; I didn't say you were rude. Before you agreed to try
some of the suggestions, you did have at least one reason why just
about every suggestion wouldn't work or why you didn't want to try it.
Call it asking for clarification if you want; that's not what it
sounded like to me.

Regarding the issue of smacking your dogs' "bottoms", that's a pretty
big issue. As Janet said, hitting children teaches them to fear being
hit; it is far less effective in teaching consequences than other
methods. Since a dog can't understand "if you don't stop that, I'll
smack you", the threat part doesn't work with dogs. If you want your
dogs to fear you, duck when you come near, run away when you reach out
your hand to them, etc., hitting is quite effective.

Mustang Sally

Obviously we don't communicate very well together. I thought your tone
was nasty and condescending, you felt I was objecting to everyone's
advice and giving reasons why none of the advice being offered would
work.

I've corrected your point of view, you've corrected mine.

As to swatting - we each have our opinions. Big issue or not. We each
understand each other's beliefs. We disagree. That's not going to
change, is it?

Let's stop there. I still appreciate your good advice, and intend to
take advantage of all the good advice I've received here - and I
appreciate the time it took for everyone to respond. Moving along
now...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Hehehe, thanks! Yeah, I need the exercise anyway. I'll try not to pop
a blood vessel - or my pants.

Here's a couple of photos. Ignore the date - it was Jan 15, 2005 - I'm
just having a hard time adjusting! Obviously, they are bigger now.
Vet did the -snip- on Milo last week - he weighed 22 pounds, up from
about 11 when this was taken.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_10.jpg - Milo, the
boy.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_14.jpg - Mollie in
front, Milo in back. Mollie has one blue eye. Both have webbed feet,
Mollie has double dew-claws. The vet says they can stay unless there
is a problem later on. She walks funny.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_22.jpg - Wife with
Milo.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_23.jpg - Wife with
Mollie.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_24.jpg - Same,
closer.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_32.jpg - Hello, cat.

http://www.growlery.com/puppies/pupp...15_2004_34.jpg - Hey cat!
Are you good to eat? Wanna Play? Cat - Get lost kid.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks