Hello all:

I have tried to find a similiar situation by searching Google before
posting, but have not, so please forgive me if this has been asked and
answered before.

My wife and I have adopted a pair of pound-puppies, which were found in
a dumpster by the local animal rescue society. We got them at about 10
weeks of age, we estimate. The dogs are mixed-breed, brother and
sister. The vet says they'll probably reach about 70 lbs.

We keep them indoors and are doing crate training, using the book "Good
Owners, Great Dogs" as our reference. The dogs are happy and healthy
and shooting up like weeds, about 4 1/2 months old now. They're
curious and intelligent and very loving - we are obviously enamored of
them!

However, the girl pup, Molly, has an interesting behavior that we're
not sure what to do about. At feeding time, she will glare at Milo from
across the room if he dares to eat at the same time she does. If he
notices her glaring, he will move away from the food bowl until she is
done eating (we have two food bowls, and they are across the room from
each other). If he fails to notice her glaring at him, she will trot
over and give him a cuff or bite him or growl at him. Sometimes he
will take a mouthful of food and retreat from the room with it, and
then sneak back in when he's done eating that mouthful for another.

It does not matter that there are two bowls - Mollie wants to control
both of them. Neither dog has any problem with my wife and I - we can
mess with their food bowls while they are eating, take the bowls away,
pet them while they are eating, etc - no signs of aggression or
growling or resentment.

The only other time we see this type of behavior is when we give them
'chewbles' type treats. They both like to go to their shared crate to
eat them - but sometimes she will take his chewble away and sit on it,
then eat hers.

He is a bit larger and much stronger than she is, but it is obvious
that she dominates him. When they play-fight and wrassle in the back
yard, he gets the better of her pretty often - but when she tops, he
submits and when he tops, she keeps fighting.

Well, that's about it - as I said, they're pretty good dogs. I'm not
sure what to do about this behavior - maybe it is just natural and
should be tolerated? If not, I am unsure how to 'break' Mollie of this
behavior.

I appreciate any advice you can give us!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On 8 Mar 2005 04:02:25 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

They both like to go to their shared crate to
eat them - but sometimes she will take his chewble away and sit on it,
then eat hers.


They need separate crates. Feed them in separate crates and give them
chewies in separate crates.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

on 2005-03-08 at 07:43 wrote:

They need separate crates. Feed them in separate crates and
give them chewies in separate crates.

yep. separate crates in separate areas where they can't see
each other while they're eating or having chewies.

furthermore, where is the guy who used to say "don't let them
*do* that!" when you need him? if the female is being a
little bossypants, put a stop to it. it's one thing to let
the dogs sort out their pack order themselves and another to
let one dog bully the other. giving the boy the evil eye
while he's eating is, in my opinion, bullying him. he should
be allowed to eat in peace and she should learn to mind her
manners.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/ (updated dailyish, apparently)

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:53:38 -0500, shelly
wrote:


furthermore, where is the guy who used to say "don't let them
*do* that!" when you need him? if the female is being a
little bossypants, put a stop to it. it's one thing to let
the dogs sort out their pack order themselves and another to
let one dog bully the other. giving the boy the evil eye
while he's eating is, in my opinion, bullying him. he should
be allowed to eat in peace and she should learn to mind her
manners.

Bob Maida, but I think many of use have said it off group as well!
"knock that off" is one of my favorite phrases in dog training. It
covers so many circumstances. I don't like bullies and wouldn't
tolerate this.
Personally, I'd probably do side my side crates with a solid divider
between them - the dogs know each other is right there, but no evil
eye possibilities.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

on 2005-03-08 at 08:13 wrote:

Bob Maida,

yep, that's the one!

but I think many of use have said it off group as well!
"knock that off" is one of my favorite phrases in dog
training. It covers so many circumstances.

"knock it off" and "watch out"/"move" are probably the most
frequent commands in my house. and i bet you can guess which
command is used most often with which dog!

I don't like bullies and wouldn't tolerate this.

it's a PITA to live with. harriet would be a terrible bully
if she could get away with it. i have to put the smack-down
on her or she'll micromanage elliott into a corner.

Personally, I'd probably do side my side crates with a
solid divider between them - the dogs know each other is
right there, but no evil eye possibilities.

that sounds like a reasonable solution to me, as long as the
male isn't already so intimidated that he won't eat if she's
physically that close to him. IOW, i'd take my cues on how
much separation they need from the male, even though i'd've
already put a halt to the female's bossypantsing.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/ (updated dailyish, apparently)

Janet B wrote:
On 8 Mar 2005 04:02:25 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

They both like to go to their shared crate to
eat them - but sometimes she will take his chewble away and sit on
it,
then eat hers.

They need separate crates. Feed them in separate crates and give
them
chewies in separate crates.

I understand. My wife and I were planning to get a second crate - they
are rapidly outgrowing the one we have now. At first, I didn't want to
get a crate at all - I grew up with dogs in the house, we had no crates
(I still tend to call it a 'cage'), and we had no problems with 'em.
However, I have to admit that it put a stop to all the nightly messes
on the kitchen floor, etc. They even slept better, right away. So I
changed my mind about that in a hurry - my wife was right.

Feed them in the crate? Doesn't that get a little messy?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

We're sorting out *how* to put a stop to the 'bossypants' on the part
of the female, that's part of what I'm asking, I guess. If I correct
her in a loud voice, she ignores me, or just stops until I stop
correcting. If I pick up the food bowl (either one or even both), they
both just ignore me and wander off together. If I try to physically
correct the female, the male comes to her rescue - or thinks it is
playtime and jumps up on my licking my face, etc. I've tried pushing
her back to her food bowl and him back to his, but they both enjoy this
and think I'm doing some new daddy dance. Makes 'em all waggly.

I don't have a problem correcting either of them - when she has on
occasion cornered the cat or is in the process of doing some other
awful thing, I go grab her up by the scruff, give her the smack on the
bottom, and scold her in a loud deep voice that has her groveling and
apologizing in seconds, and her behavior has been improving on things
like that. But I don't know exactly how to get her to stop this one.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On 8 Mar 2005 05:47:11 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:

If I try to physically
correct the female, the male comes to her rescue - or thinks it is
playtime and jumps up on my licking my face, etc. I've tried pushing
her back to her food bowl and him back to his, but they both enjoy this
and think I'm doing some new daddy dance. Makes 'em all waggly.

Crates or tethering would stop this.


I don't have a problem correcting either of them - when she has on
occasion cornered the cat or is in the process of doing some other
awful thing, I go grab her up by the scruff, give her the smack on the
bottom, and scold her in a loud deep voice that has her groveling and
apologizing in seconds, and her behavior has been improving on things
like that.


Stop smacking her on her bottom - it makes no sense. Leave leashes on
the dogs so you can give a more timely and effective correction for
cat chasing. Start using management and teaching the behavior you
DO want, more than correcting behavior that's already happening.
Strong leadership (which doesn't involve hitting or even correction
necessarily) means that dogs don't even try this level of
obnoxiousness, or not more than once.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On 8 Mar 2005 05:42:20 -0800, "The Bill Mattocks"
wrote:


I understand. My wife and I were planning to get a second crate - they
are rapidly outgrowing the one we have now.

Get the crate NOW.


Feed them in the crate? Doesn't that get a little messy?


Why would it? They do eat from bowls, right? How would it be any
messier than a bowl on the floor?

I just had a large puppy here for the last 10 days. Because my
pattern is - feed the dogs, then go in the next room to feed the cats
and scoop their box, I couldn't be keeping an eye on the puppy and
where she was wandering to (like the adult dogs' bowls). So, she ate
in her crate. Amazing how fast a puppy can zip into a crate on
command when they know that's where they get fed.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

You LET her?

No! We come a'runnin' if we hear that going on in the kitchen while
we're doing our morning stuff. We're never more than 20 feet away from
them at any feeding time. And if she's being physical, we pull her off
him and correct/scold her. Doesn't seem to be helping.

WHY?????

Uh, because so far, she's not stopping the behavior. And I wondered a)
if it was just normal and should be ignored, or b) if anyone had any
suggestions on how to stop the behavior. It's not a sin to be ignorant
- that's why I'm asking for advice, ok?

He shouldn't have to eat like this.

I agree. I'm looking for suggestions on how to stop it. I am
listening to the suggestions that we get a second crate and feed them
in the crates, which I admit I had not thought of. Worth a try!

Resource guarding. Don't let it get started, and don't allow it. This
can
bleed over to other issues later.

I also agree with this. But I posted because she does not seem to have
issues with guarding her food in other ways. She freely lets us mess
with her bowl, pick it up, take it away, etc. No problems, no evil
eye, no complaints at all. We read the book and think we understand it
- we want her (and him) to know that it is OUR food, and they get it
when WE say so, because we say so, but if they obey, they will always
be taken care of. But as I said, they don't seem to have issues with
this - only the staring/growling etc of girl pup towards boy pup, and
only as regards eating. It seems unusual. Perhaps not?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks