Well you got both! The options are E-COLLAR or RESTRAINT. Take your pick
it's one or the other. It's not something you can train out of any dog
easily and even with a E-collar it's going to damned hard. It's instinct
and since she's been allowed to get away with it then it will continue until
you restrain her or someone shoots her.

Celeste


"Jim Pflaum" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was hoping to get some worthwhile training tips, not a lecture. We
don't live in or near a city. We live on small 43 acre farm, and have
no nearby neighbors. Ali never leaves our property, even when she's
chasing deer. Don't like the idea of an e-collar. She's been
reward-trained and she's an absolutely wonderful and obedient dog,
except for her deer chasing. We've got three horses, 2 cats and about a
dozen chickens and she gets along great with them. Again, I'm looking
for some training tips, not a lecture.

Scott wrote:
Hi, PW.


YourConscience wrote:
HOWEDY scott,

Scott wrote:

You might start by going to this web site
and read about crittering:



BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!


The guy will answer e-mail questions.



The GUY is a a DOG ABUSER like yourself, scotty.
Your own dog WENT NUTS from gettin jerked and
choked and shocked by you. REMEMBER scotty?
You thought your dog was CHASING GHOSTS!!!



My dog don't chase no ghosts. Are you off your meds again.

The really, really sad thing is - from what I've learned - he's ON his
meds, and he still acts this way - like a 12-year old. They need to
figure out what is needed to help this guy out.

Hi, PW.

wrote:
HOWEDY scott,



You mean 'HOWEDY The Amazing Puppy Wizard {) ; ~ ) '


No, I mean PW.




YourConscience wrote:


HOWEDY scott,

Scott wrote:


You might start by going to this web site
and read about crittering:

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

The guy will answer e-mail questions.

The GUY is a a DOG ABUSER like yourself, scotty.
Your own dog WENT NUTS from gettin jerked and
choked and shocked by you. REMEMBER scotty?
You thought your dog was CHASING GHOSTS!!!

My dog don't chase no ghosts.


Your dog attacks trees in the cemetary when
you let IT off leash on accHOWENT of you
jerked and choked IT on your pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and shocked IT and let IT
watch some shitsHOWEND "trainer" chokin
and shocking their dogs as they "attacked"


My dog, at times, does a great "bark and hold," in the manner of a
schutzhund trained dog. (My dog is not schutzhund trained.) She mostly
has outgrown the behavior, without any correction on my part, thank you.



a pole with a rag on it...

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!


Are you off your meds again.


You want the QUOTE, scotty?:

Subject: Explain this behavior

HOWEDY scotty,

"Scott" wrote in message
...


She is actually paying less and less attention to trees.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard sez "any behavior
problem that is repressed or ignored only changes
to other, often worse, seemingly non related behavior
as a trainsfer or replacement anxiHOWSNESS relief
mechanism.


It used to be that every tree was in danger of
being attacked when she was off lead, but now
it seems to be mainly the trees in the cemetery
where I walk her once a week.


Peraps "time heels all wHOWENDS."


Maybe she sees spirits?


CuriHOWES ain't it, HOWE you'd PREFER
to BLAME SPIRIT ENTITIES rather than accept
RESPONSIBILTY for causing your dog's OCD.


Here's a couple QUOTES from your
SHOCK COLLAR DOG AUBSER pal:

If you're using this for dog to dog aggression, the
degrees of success will vary

If your TRAININ ain't CONSISTENT scotty, don't
THAT mean your TRAININ relies on SHEER LUCK?

No.


You think the DOG dictates what IT will learn, scotty?


A dog is a dog and, therefore, behaves like a dog.




depending on the reason for the aggression.


ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR, scotty.


That so, scotty? You think the DOG dictates
the DEGREE of SUCCESS you're gonna get
from HURTIN and INTIMIDATING IT, scotty?

If it's out of fear,

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR, scotty.

No.



Dogs are dogs. Left alone, they will naturally establish a pack order,
which just might include some form of aggression. But they will do so
because dogs are dogs and they just do what comes naturally.




INDEEDY. Ask The Bill Mattocks, scotty. He'll
TELL you the ONLY REASON HE HURTS HIS
DOGS and KIDS and SPHOWES is on accHOWENT
of HE'S AFRAID of their BAD BEHAVIORS.



I don't need to ask Bill Mattocks.


I am not afraid of dog behavior. I have dogs because I like dog behavior.





BWEEEEEEEEEHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!


THAT'S HOWE COME you HURT your dog.


My dog wears a flat leather collar and doesn't
need to be hurt for any reason.


From: Scott
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 05:52:18 -0800
Subject: Leash pulling help if you can

danewdawg wrote:

He's a massive dog. He weighs something
like 85lbs and is very strong.


Use a pinch collar. The dog will self-correct.



It will self correct, but I use a flat leather collar nonetheless.

Do you deny that a pinch collar will self-correct?




Scott May 2 2004, 5:22 pm show options

Newsgroups: alt.animals.dog, alt.animals.dogs, rec.pet.dogs,
rec.pets.dogs, rec.pets.dogs.activities, rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Scott - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 17:22:21 -0700
Local: Sun, May 2 2004 5:22 pm
Subject: Help! Need to bring my schutzhund pup out of his shell!!




I have never sought help on bringing my schutzhund pup out of his shell.
I don't have a schutzhund dog, nor am I envolved in schutzhund
training, nor does she need to be brought out of her shell.

Nice try though, although it was a rather cowardly action on your
part... cutting and pasting! It shows a definite lack of class on your
part, and perhaps indicates a lack of self confidence. Perhaps you did
so due to some childhood anger/aggression that has not yet been resolved.



You can buy some video/cd on how to develop
drive at this site:



You can...if that is something you think you need.



There is also a good forum where you can
ask questions of people who raise and train
schutzhund dogs.


There is such a forum. I don't raise or train schutzhund dogs, however.



They're DOG ABUSERS, scotty.

HOWEDY scotty,

"Scott" wrote in message
...


She is actually paying less and less attention to trees.



The Amazing Puppy Wizard sez "any behavior
problem that is repressed or ignored only changes
to other, often worse, seemingly non related behavior
as a trainsfer or replacement anxiHOWSNESS relief
mechanism.


Really! Well do tell me what a problem behavior is, because what may be
a problem behavior for you and your dog (if you had one) may very well
not be a problem behavior for me. As you always say, a dog is a dog. I
expect dog behavior from dogs.

Please reread my history of posts. I believe the only time I have asked
for suggestions on modifying a behavior of my dog was in regard to her
pulling on the leash just a bit more than I would like. I have also
inquired about the fitting of an e-collar by a so-called professional
trainer that wanted to show me how the collar worked.

Any behavior of my dogs that has needed changing, has been changed
gradually over time as the dog matured and as the bond between us grew
and my position as pack leader grew. I am very patient with my dog, as
I am with you.




It used to be that every tree was in danger of
being attacked when she was off lead, but now
it seems to be mainly the trees in the cemetery
where I walk her once a week.


Perhaps "time heels all wHOWENDS."


There have been no wounds. My dog is simply maturing, as nature would
have it.






Maybe she sees spirits?



ONLY dog abusing punk thug cowards and active
incurable long term acute MENTAL CASES hurt
dogs and post here abHOWET it.

you'll probably find that the dog ignores
the other dog that is was previously afraid of.

OR HE'LL GET BURNED someMOORE, eh scotty?

Some dogs will lose so much fear

By making them HURT when they're AFRAID.

that they'll PLAY with the other dog,

So long as you threaten to HURT him someMOORE.

Kinda like the dancin bears, eh scotty?

but that degree of success is rare.



What are you trying to say?



INDEED, scotty? HOWE COME they ALWAYS
get the dancin bear to DANCE, scotty? PERHAPS
your punk thug coward pal lou castle don't HURT
his dogs ENOUGH to train EVERY DOG CONSISTENTLY?

If the aggression came out of being a bully,

"BULLY," scotty? BULLYS are COWARDS, like
you and your punk thug coward pal lou castle.


I don't know the man. I have only read some of what he has to say. I
have also read some of what you have to say.

Talk to you later, PW.


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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:43:43 +1100, quietguy
wrote:

House does your dog respond to gunshots?

At a Maremma stud I visited the owner would fire his gun when any of the
dogs became too rough with the animal they were being bonded with, and as
Maremmas seem to hate the sound of guns pairing the unwanted behaviour to
a gunshot reduced that behaviour.

Although I have not used this technique myself, all my Maremmas have
headed for the hills when they see me with a gun (shooting feral cats)


Wimps. Franklin gets charged up when he hears gunfire. Ready for
ducks! But of course, he doesn't chase and kill deer either. It
wouldn't be allowed.



--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

In article ,
dogsnus wrote:
Every single dog(s) I've ever seen take off after an adult deer has
always come back exhausted and panting,needing to drink huge
amounts of water without having gotten to use their deer tags.
I'm not saying it *can't* happen but in this case?

A friend lets her boxer x run (I know, I know) and he
occasionally comes home with deer parts and once even
brought home a head. He's a fast dog but we're quite sure
that he's getting the pieces 'n parts from deer that are
already down or dead. However, someone might see him toting
Bambi's face and think that he's killing the deer himself.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

George Bush's proposed budget will create $1.6 trillion in additional
federal debt, compared to just tracking inflation, according to the CBO.

On 15 Mar 2005 08:23:00 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

He's a fast dog but we're quite sure
that he's getting the pieces 'n parts from deer that are
already down or dead. However, someone might see him toting
Bambi's face and think that he's killing the deer himself.


yeah - i had a hairdresser who worked in her home. She lived
"semi-rural" and they let their lab roam (UGH). She regularly brought
home deer legs and such. It's highly unlikely that she killed them
(she was kinda on the small side, not very fast, and a lab after all).

I think this poster would "like" to think he had big tough GSD who
could take down an elephant, but I'm betting it's just not the case as
well. yeah - never go beyond the boundaries, but kill deer
repeatedly. Pretty far fetched (maybe the deer are boundary trained
too!).


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:28:48 -0500, Janet B
wrote:

. She lived
"semi-rural" and they let their lab roam (UGH). She regularly brought
home deer legs and such.

Ok - it sounds like the hairdresser brought home deer legs. I don't
think that was the case, but who knows?!?!? ;-D


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...ence/my_photos

On 15 Mar 2005 08:23:00 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

However, someone might see him toting
Bambi's face

You have such a way with words!

Mustang Sally

Janet B said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

yeah - i had a hairdresser who worked in her home. She
lived "semi-rural" and they let their lab roam (UGH). She
regularly brought home deer legs and such. It's highly
unlikely that she killed them (she was kinda on the small
side, not very fast, and a lab after all).

Years ago, my family moved to a wooded rural area that was
becoming attractive to city folk, many of whom let their dogs
roam. These dogs often formed packs of 4 or more and were
*known* to bring down deer. The game warden put out flyers and
made phone calls to all of the residents saying that on
such'n'such date he'd be shooting all free-roaming dogs. And he
did - the deer-running problem never reoccured.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On 15 Mar 2005 17:02:27 GMT, Rocky wrote:

Years ago, my family moved to a wooded rural area that was
becoming attractive to city folk, many of whom let their dogs
roam. These dogs often formed packs of 4 or more and were
*known* to bring down deer.

there was an article in last week's paper about a local pack of (IIRC
four) dogs who brought down and killed an Angus bull.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.
-- Euripides