"dogsnus" wrote in message
...
Janet B wrote in
:

But of course, he doesn't chase and kill deer either. It
wouldn't be allowed.

Personally,I'm having a hard time believing it anyway. Had the
OP said fawn instead of deer,it would be more believable.
He also said "keeps" indicating more than once which is really bucking the
odds for a single GSD to bring down and kill an adult deer and if it's
true,he should really be taking that dog to Las Vegas because he could
really clean 'em out.

Then,there's the fact that the dog is supposed to have be able to catch up
with the deer in a mere 43 acres without the creature leaping out of
bounds in perhaps 15 standard deer leaps. AND,the dog "never leaves" the
property so I guess she read the STOP! DO NOT LEAVE! BOUNDRY! SIGNS! and
comes to a screeching halt reliably in the throes of hot persuit mode.

Every single dog(s) I've ever seen take off after an adult deer has
always come back exhausted and panting,needing to drink huge
amounts of water without having gotten to use their deer tags.
I'm not saying it *can't* happen but in this case?

Naw.

I know of one case where a single dog killed a deer but it was an unusual
situation. The owners and their dog were walking near a local reservoir when
the dog startled a deer who jumped into the water and started swimming. The
dog went in after it and managed to chase it to an area with steep banks.
Every time the deer tried to go up the bank, it would slip and fall back to
where the dog was waiting. Jane told me that they called, screamed and tried
everything to get their dog to come back but she was pretty much obvious.
Unfortunately it was not a quick death for the deer. At the end, they said
their dog was exhausted and rested with the dead deer on a small ledge
against the bank. After about 20 minutes, this dog swam back to them, toting
the dead deer. I know this dog and she's good sized (GSD-ish) but the fact
she was able to swim with a dead deer, makes me think the deer must have
been fairly small - a fawn or a yearling. OTOH, I have no idea as to the
maximum weight a dog can tote while swimming.

Chris and her smoothies,
Pablo and Lucy

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:32:23 -0500, Janet B
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:28:48 -0500, Janet B
wrote:

. She lived
"semi-rural" and they let their lab roam (UGH). She regularly brought
home deer legs and such.

Ok - it sounds like the hairdresser brought home deer legs. I don't
think that was the case, but who knows?!?!? ;-D

Well, to each her own, but it was kind of mean to blame it on the dog!

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

"shelly" wrote:
snip
there was an article in last week's paper about a local pack of (IIRC
four) dogs who brought down and killed an Angus bull.

Shane is a veteran bull stalker. He can't understand why I don't let him off
lead. He could get us steaks, darn it!

--
-Andrea Stone
Saorsa Basenjis
http://home1.gte.net/res0s12z/

Hello, PW.

wrote:

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students all over the Whole Wild World REPORT gettin
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.


100% consistently nearly instantly successful!


I don't think so...unless, of course, you are training dogs to do only
what comes naturally, and then no training is required cuz they come pre
programed.





Left alone, they will naturally establish a pack order,


VIOLENCE IS LEARNED, scotty. Dogs DO NOT
HURT and INTIMIDATE each other for PACK STATUS.



When all else fails, they will.





I am not afraid of dog behavior.


Then HOWE COME you jerk and choke and
shock your dog, scotty? Is THAT HOWE you
show AFFECTION TRUST and LEADERSHIP?



Not at all. I take my dog daily for hikes in the snow covered Sierra
Nevadas or swimming in one of the many lakes and rivers around here.
Other times I take her to the city so she can check out all the city
smells and sounds. She also rides in my truck with her head out the
window. Dogs love trucks.


I have dogs because I like dog behavior.


MOST of HOWER dog lovers PREFER to HURT
and INTIMIDATE dogs to compensate for their
inferiority complexes, weak fearful minds and
to have sumpthin in their HOWETA CON-TROLL
lives that they CAN CON-TROLL and will do ANY
THING to SAVE their dogs from PAIN {) ; ~ )
and THAT'S HOWE COME they HURT and
INTIMIDATE their dogs and children, to raise them
RIGHT, scotty. JUST LIKE HOWE you was raised.


....just like how I was raised? No way! I was raised on California
dreamin'.






He's a massive dog. He weighs something
like 85lbs and is very strong.

Use a pinch collar. The dog will self-correct.

It will self correct


You mean it'll HURT your dog for you.


Are you sure that is what you mean to say...a dog will purposely hurt
itself? I don't think so.





You GAVE UP the PRONG for your SHOCK COLLAR, scotty?


I use a flat leather collar. Please try harder to pay attention.






nor am I envolved in schutzhund training,


But you DO like to hang arHOWEND and let
your dog WATCH the shitsHOWEND trainin.


I have, from time to time, observed schuthund training, and I have, from
time to time, read what it is you have to say about dog training. Both
sources of information leave me with lots of doubts.




Nice try though, although it was a rather cowardly
action on your part... cutting and pasting!


What The Amazing Puppy Wizard CUT HOWET
was the LINK to leersburg dog trainin, scotty.


He's
the BUM who told Anthony Testa to take his dog
Angel to the P-HOWEND and GET RID OF HER
on accHOWENT of she had destructive separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS, scotty {) ; ~ )



I don't care what Ed Frawley said to Anthony...why would I? Ed Frawley
goes his own way and I go my way. Besides, I don't even know Ed
Frawley. I have read what he has to say on his web site.


It shows a definite lack of class on your part,


Subject: Treat your dog like a dog

Courtesy of ed frawley of leersburg dog abusers:

"Puppies can be taught not to bite the handler or
family members by simply saying "NO, or PHOE"
and then grabbing them by the scruff of the neck
and shaking them.


So what does that have to do with me? Why don't you e-mail Mr. Frawley
and tell him what you think.




You're a DOG ABUSER, scotty. THAT'S the PROBLEM.
You're a DOG ABUSER on accHOWENT of you're a
VICTIM of ABUSE, scotty. We AIN'T BEEN talkin
abHOWET DOG BEHAVIOR, scotty.


Gee, how stupid of me. All this time I thought this was the "dog
behavior" newsgroup. Now everything you say makes much more sense,
given that we are talking about human behavior. Just for the record: I
don't use flat leather collars on people, just on my dog.




You're a DOG ABUSER, scotty.


I believe the only time I have asked
for suggestions on modifying a behavior
of my dog was in regard to her pulling
on the leash just a bit more than I would like.


Yeah... when she was TURNIN ON YOU.


She turns on me all the time and I just love it. At more than two years
of age she still acts like a pup, wiggling and whirling around for me to
scratch her bum. Yep, I love it when she turns.



I have also inquired about the fitting of an
e-collar by a so-called professional trainer
that wanted to show me how the collar worked.


BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

You can't USE a SHOCK COLLAR till the dog
has WORN IT for a week or two so IT don't
THINK your new SHOCK COLLAR is RESPONSIBLE
for HURTING HIM or the dog will be PERMENANTLY
ADDICTED to NEEDING the SHOCK COLLR or IT
WON'T WORK for you, scotty {) ; ~ )



....and you know this how...from experience?


Any behavior of my dogs that has needed changing,
has been changed gradually over time as the dog
matured and as the bond between us grew and my
position as pack leader grew.


BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FULL OF MALARKEY, scotty.



No, I am full of California dreamin'. Don't you ever listen?




I am very patient with my dog, as I am with you.


You're a LIAR, scotty {) ; ~ )


No, I am an aquarian.



If the aggression came out of being a bully,

"BULLY," scotty? BULLYS are COWARDS, like
you and your punk thug coward pal lou castle.

I don't know the man.


YOU KNOW HE HURTS DOGS, scotty.


I thought we were talking about human behavior...or did you change back
to talking about dog behavior?


....and by the way, you should stay away from drugs; they aren't good for
a person's health.

Later




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I have a 60lb 1.5 year old German Shepherd mix and she is freakishly fast. She killed a deer while hiking off leash last month. I bought an e-collar and attempted to use it to discourage chasing by giving her stim when she begins to run. Albeit I am not experienced with e-collars the highest stim did not deter her and she ran down and killed another deer. I highly recommend never alowing your dogs off leash around deer. Once they are rewarded with a chase and kill it becomes increasing difficult to prevent. In my oppinion chasing and killing is the ultimate reward and anything we can do is less desireable. Needless to say my dog will never go off leash again unless within a fenced area. I don't want her gorged to death by a buck or shot by a hunter.