This is a little long story, but please read it and if you have any
comments, let me know.

I have a Sharpei-Mix, four years old, named Toben. He's always been a
little aggressive when he feels threatened, and he gets scared with
everything, he has bitten two people already before, although not too
bad.

My brother had to come live with me last month and he has a Jack
Russell terrier mix named Owen (one year and a half), he didn't have
anyone to leave his dog with, so I told him to bring him along, I know
Toben had never been aggressive with other dogs because I used to take
him to the dog park a lot and he never got into any fight.

So, we tried to do it right since the beginning, and we introduced them
in a friend's house, and they seemed to get along from start, they
played that day until they were exhausted, and we spent several hours
there. Then we went home, and the first three days they spent the time
always playing and running all day long.

Toben has become since a year ago or so, very quiet and he doesn't like
to go out too much, he normally just spends the day sleeping and likes
to be left alone. Owen is completely the opposite, he wants to play the
whole day, and loves contact with people.

So, after a few days, Toben started to get tired of Owen and started
ignoring him and getting mad when Owen was pushing him to play, he
growled at him a couple of times, and snapped at him, but always when
we were there, so we didn't let them get into a fight.

Then, about six days later, we were in a room, my brother and I and we
were petting them, and they were ok, but the Owen got too closed to
Toben and Toben tried to bite him, and this time Owen got defensive and
they fought really hard. My brother and I tried to separate them, and
we did it after about 10 or 15 seconds. Toben ran away, and he was
badly hurt. Owen had nothing, even though Toben bit him too, but he
wasn't injured. So, we got worried and took Toben to the doctor.
Luckily the wounds were not dangerous, and he healed quickly.

But then, Toben wanted less and less contact with Owen, but he was
always following him everywhere he goes. We let him do it, to see what
they'd do, but every time Owen approaches Toben, he turns his back and
goes the other way. So Owen started to get the message and tried not to
bother him too much.

Then, about one week after, Owen was playing with us, and Toben was
there so he got a little excited and started to play too, but the Owen
started to play with him, like in the beginning when they met, and
Toben didn't like it at first, and eventually they started playing
again, but after a while, Toben got mad and attacked Owen, and again
Owen got defensive and hurt Toben, not as bad as the first time, but we
had to separate them again. So it took a few days again for Toben to
get in contact with Owen but eventually he did.

Since the second week they have been together we always leave them
alone in the house, for at least two or three hours (sometimes much
more), every day. And they had never showed any signs of fighting when
they are alone.

Two weeks after their last fight, yesterday. I was leaving in the
morning, and my brother stayed with the two dogs. Owen was outside, and
when Toben wanted to go out too, Owen passed by him, and out of the
blue (according to my brother) Toben snapped at Owen and a tried to
bite him, so my brother held Owen so they didn't fight, but then Toben
attacked my brother this time (not too bad, just snapped at him), but
Owen got crazy (I guess to protect my brother) and attacked Toben, and
he hurt him this time, much more badly.

My wife called me at the office when I arrived to tell me that Toben
was bleeding pretty bad, so I went back home, and we took him to the
doctor again. The doctor said the wounds were not dangerous, but they
were pretty big.

So now, you get the picture. I just don't know how to handle this. If I
let them separated maybe they will never get the chance to trust each
other, or if I leave them together I'm afraid of how worse can it get.
Should I be more patient, and give them more time to get accustomed to
each other? Leave them together for just periods of time? I don't know.


It doesn't seem to be a fight for dominance, because clearly Owen
follows Toben everywhere he goes and likes to be with him, and if Toben
wants to go somewhere Owen is always trying to follow him, besides Owen
is very submissive, or at least that's what we thought, until he got
defensive. To me, the problem is that Toben just doesn't like to be
touched or have too much contact (other than me or my wife), and I
don't know if Owen will understand this or Toben will accept him more,
eventually, because right now he seems to be very afraid of the other
one, and avoids him at all costs.

Any ideas will be appreciated, Thank you very much.

wrote in message
oups.com...
This is a little long story, but please read it and if you have any
comments, let me know.

I have a Sharpei-Mix, four years old, named Toben. He's always been a
little aggressive when he feels threatened, and he gets scared with
everything, he has bitten two people already before, although not too
bad.

My brother had to come live with me last month and he has a Jack
Russell terrier mix named Owen (one year and a half), he didn't have
anyone to leave his dog with, so I told him to bring him along, I know
Toben had never been aggressive with other dogs because I used to take
him to the dog park a lot and he never got into any fight.

So, we tried to do it right since the beginning, and we introduced them
in a friend's house, and they seemed to get along from start, they
played that day until they were exhausted, and we spent several hours
there. Then we went home, and the first three days they spent the time
always playing and running all day long.

Toben has become since a year ago or so, very quiet and he doesn't like
to go out too much, he normally just spends the day sleeping and likes
to be left alone. Owen is completely the opposite, he wants to play the
whole day, and loves contact with people.

So, after a few days, Toben started to get tired of Owen and started
ignoring him and getting mad when Owen was pushing him to play, he
growled at him a couple of times, and snapped at him, but always when
we were there, so we didn't let them get into a fight.

Then, about six days later, we were in a room, my brother and I and we
were petting them, and they were ok, but the Owen got too closed to
Toben and Toben tried to bite him, and this time Owen got defensive and
they fought really hard. My brother and I tried to separate them, and
we did it after about 10 or 15 seconds. Toben ran away, and he was
badly hurt. Owen had nothing, even though Toben bit him too, but he
wasn't injured. So, we got worried and took Toben to the doctor.
Luckily the wounds were not dangerous, and he healed quickly.

But then, Toben wanted less and less contact with Owen, but he was
always following him everywhere he goes. We let him do it, to see what
they'd do, but every time Owen approaches Toben, he turns his back and
goes the other way. So Owen started to get the message and tried not to
bother him too much.

Then, about one week after, Owen was playing with us, and Toben was
there so he got a little excited and started to play too, but the Owen
started to play with him, like in the beginning when they met, and
Toben didn't like it at first, and eventually they started playing
again, but after a while, Toben got mad and attacked Owen, and again
Owen got defensive and hurt Toben, not as bad as the first time, but we
had to separate them again. So it took a few days again for Toben to
get in contact with Owen but eventually he did.

Since the second week they have been together we always leave them
alone in the house, for at least two or three hours (sometimes much
more), every day. And they had never showed any signs of fighting when
they are alone.

Two weeks after their last fight, yesterday. I was leaving in the
morning, and my brother stayed with the two dogs. Owen was outside, and
when Toben wanted to go out too, Owen passed by him, and out of the
blue (according to my brother) Toben snapped at Owen and a tried to
bite him, so my brother held Owen so they didn't fight, but then Toben
attacked my brother this time (not too bad, just snapped at him), but
Owen got crazy (I guess to protect my brother) and attacked Toben, and
he hurt him this time, much more badly.

My wife called me at the office when I arrived to tell me that Toben
was bleeding pretty bad, so I went back home, and we took him to the
doctor again. The doctor said the wounds were not dangerous, but they
were pretty big.

So now, you get the picture. I just don't know how to handle this. If I
let them separated maybe they will never get the chance to trust each
other, or if I leave them together I'm afraid of how worse can it get.
Should I be more patient, and give them more time to get accustomed to
each other? Leave them together for just periods of time? I don't know.


It doesn't seem to be a fight for dominance, because clearly Owen
follows Toben everywhere he goes and likes to be with him, and if Toben
wants to go somewhere Owen is always trying to follow him, besides Owen
is very submissive, or at least that's what we thought, until he got
defensive. To me, the problem is that Toben just doesn't like to be
touched or have too much contact (other than me or my wife), and I
don't know if Owen will understand this or Toben will accept him more,
eventually, because right now he seems to be very afraid of the other
one, and avoids him at all costs.

Any ideas will be appreciated, Thank you very much.

You MUST keep these two dogs separated. Period. You may be able to calm
them down sometime in future by neutering both dogs - it can help, although
I think these 2 will probably still fight. They just might not be as quick
to fight, but that would be helpful.

Shar Peis are normally very, very territorial, and very one-person or
one-family dogs (I've had a number of them in the past, and still have 1
aging Pei). Yours is only half Pei, but it sounds like he inherited the
Shar Pei temperament and attitude ;-). In my experience, it is perfectly
normal for a Pei to not be friendly to strangers and to not get along well
with other dogs. Don't try to make him into something he isn't (although he
should learn basic manners and obedience, and it isn't too late to train
him).

People are likely to get bitten if they get between two dogs that are
fighting - as your brother has found out. Best thing to do is keep the dogs
separated so fights don't happen. It would be a good idea to invest in 2
crates, if you don't have them already. They can often be found cheaply
used, in the classified ads, at garage sales and thrift shops. If you need
more ideas on how to separate dogs in your household, with your room layout,
feel free to email me. I am not an expert, but I have a multiple-dog
household (8) and some dogs that must be kept away from each other.

flick 100785

On 18 Mar 2005 15:48:47 -0800, wrote:

So now, you get the picture. I just don't know how to handle this. If I
let them separated maybe they will never get the chance to trust each
other, or if I leave them together I'm afraid of how worse can it get.
Should I be more patient, and give them more time to get accustomed to
each other? Leave them together for just periods of time? I don't know.

Don't leave them alone together any more. If they set each other off
without you there to break it up, you could come home to a dead dog.
I don't think this is a matter of them getting accustomed to each
other, but even if it were, that would best be done with people there
to intervene and leashes on the dogs to make it easier to intervene.
Seek out the in person advice of a good trainer or behaviorist who can
see the dogs, read their body language, get a good feel for the
situation and the individual dogs in person and help you out. In the
meantime, you have to keep those dogs separated so that nothing really
bad happens while you are trying to see if you can work something out.
Also in the meantime, write down everything you and the people in your
household remember or notice about what seems to set them off and what
seems to calm them down so that when you meet with the trainer or
behaviorist, you can provide as complete a picture as possible of what
is happening and so that you can be extra careful of what sets them
off and ready to calm them down. Far better safe than sorry.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

It sounds alot like Owen isn't, or wasn't, grasping Toben's desire to be
left alone. Toben continually gave warnings only to have them ignored.
Listen to your dog and let him have his space. Tell your brother to find
other ways to entertain Owen and always keep the dogs separated when no one
is directly supervising them. Even when directly supervising if one of you
sees Owen trying to initiate play with Toben distract & redirect him.

--
Tara