http://www.badrap.org/rescue/gamebred.cfm

very well done by the savvy folks at BadRap

EmilyS

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness.

Either she was going to kill Tasha, my
Siberian with the rock steady
temperament, or Tasha was going to
kill her, right in front of us.

My DH's first dog, and still the canine love of his life," racetrack
silly {) : ~ (

From: "The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:17:31 GMT
Subject: Tara and Sally, kindred spirits in dog killing

PATHETIC, eh Soup?

"@d o g t v dot com" ""m i c h e ae l \"@d o g t v dot com"
wrote in message ...

sighthounds etc. wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:56:36 -0400, "Tara O."

wrote:

Damn Gwen, don't mince words or anything.

I will assume, from the above, that in your eyes, I
am not trustworthy to rescue Boxers or make decisions
on who gets to adopt them...having killed my own dog
and all.

You're not the only one. After numerous training
classes, behavioral consultations, and hundreds
of dollars in vet bills, I killed my Dalmatian several
years ago due to extreme dog-aggressiveness.

Did you have to pay for it, or did the local Animal
Protection League, where you were board President
while 70% of the animals coming in for rescue were
being killed, give you a freebie?

Either she was going to kill Tasha, my Siberian
with the rock steady temperament, or Tasha was
going to kill her, right in front of us.

My DH's first dog, and still the canine love of his life.

Good thing that Gwen is perfect in her
stewardship of her animals.

Gwen didn't murder her own dog. You and Tara O. did.

michael
live..
dogtv.comn

Mustang Sally

Sally Hennessey

Probably because they grab on and WON'T let go.
Not that they can lock their jaws...just that they won't
let go of the chewie/arm/whatever.

I had a Dalmatian like that. Better ban Dals, huh?

Sally Hennessey

YOU MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD Dalmatian...

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

"Sally Hennessey" wrote in message
...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: shock collars

Sally Hennessey wrote in message
...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

From: sighthounds etc.
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:34:47 -0400
Subject: Another Rebellion Stage?

On Wed, 29 May 2002 09:03:13 -0500, Gwen Watson
wrote:

"sighthounds etc." wrote:IMO it is unwise (and
ultimately unfair to the dog) to leave something
as important (particularly to a breed like a BC)
as exercise and training to someone else (yes,
even a spouse, or perhaps especially a spouse)
unless there is proof, in the form of experience,
that that someone else will come through.

Sally Hennessey

I mostly agree with you Sally about this. Certainly it is
ideal for the person who owns the dog to be the
one exercising and giving mental stimulation. But there
are times in which a person is not physically able, which
apparently seems to be the case, at that point I personally
think it would be better to find another individual to help
out rather than not doing anything at all.

It's true that circumstances do change, and people
can't do what they could before. Definitely it would
be better for someone to exercise the dog than no
one, and I didn't mean to suggest that if the owner
can't do it, then no one should. I meant that one
should not get a dog requiring lots of exercise and
mental stimulation if one cannot meet those needs.

IOW, Leah shouldn't have gotten a BC with the
understanding that her husband would take care
of the exercise and training needs.

However, Leah said that it was actually her husband
who wanted a BC, and he promised to exercise and
train her. I guess it depends on one's experience;

IME, I'm the one doing the training, so next time my
DH wants a Dalmatian and promises to train it, I won't
believe him.

Sally Hennessey

"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."

Sally Hennessey

"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."

Sally Hennessey

I didn't mean to suggest that we don't love our
poop-eaters; of course, we do. If we were on
that show (The Secret Shame...), we would be
seen frantically dodging leaping Whippets trying
to plant kisses as close as possible to our mouths.

And I will admit that the night Robin barfed up poop,
he spent the night in his crate, not in bed with us.

Just couldn't chance a recurrence.

Sally Hennessey


Sighthounds etc." wrote in message
...

Dalmatian that would position himself behind
the Greyhounds and catch...Being a Dal, he
was sometimes a little harder to love to begin
with.

"fter Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

From: sionnach )
Subject: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

And Sally responded:
Who said that? I would never do or recommend
that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
Sally Hennessey

I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
across the room!

here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):

A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=AD^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."


Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"

Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

From: Marshall Dermer )
Subject: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05

In article
976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0DAB8B.90BA464FE454EF7
Jason writes:
:
I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
on just about anything. How do you train a young
puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate
at this age.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).

My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.

"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.

then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.

In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.

Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.

--Marshall


From: Marshall Dermer )
Subject: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14

In article

writes:
:
My previous thread seems to have deteriorated
off topic, but I would still like some input on
biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
:
This could have been when petting him, walking
by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts.

To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,

Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.

The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.

All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.

Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.

If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.

I said NO, and failing that put him in my room
alone for a few min. When in there he barks
and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
After about a week of this the biting has decreased
remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it
when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.

Well, be patient.

You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).

Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.

Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

Best wishes,

Marshall

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Date: 1999/07/05
Marshall Dermer wrote:

In article
976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0DAB8B.90BA464FE454EF7

Jason writes:

I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
on just about anything. How do you train a young
puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
there is a time and place for saying 'no'

SHORE!~ If you want the dog to OPPOSE you.

and giving the dog a scruff shake I do no
know if this is appropriate at this age.

We shove fingers dHOWEN puppy's throats to choke
them HOWETA mHOWETHING from the time they're
in the litter box, ACCORDING TO lying frosty dahl,
sindy SADIST mooreon, lyingdogDUMMY, lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, ed w of PET LOSS dot CON,
and company.

Hello doc,

You seem to be real good with all the big words
and stuff, but you are failing dog behavior 101.

The obvious negative consequences of
the abusive advice you have given Jason
is likely to have a major negative impact
on his dog and his family as a result of
your failure to understand what we have
been discussing here.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.

This will achieve violating the trust and respect you
need to develop to make your dog NATURALLY
WANTdo anything you ask. The MonkeysofNotso
NewSkeete are a bunch of heavy handed gorillas
when it comes to dog training.

Their methods are barbaric and outdated by current
information. But they do have a nicely edited text with
lots of pretty pictures. They specialize in GSD's, a
breed known to tolerate heavy handed treatment from
their owners.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.

Not necessarily, doc. Allelomimetic behavior dictates
the dog will copy your actions and attitudes.

Remember?

What you are teaching the dog is HOWE you want him
to respond back to you in the future. People who abuse
their dogs as puppies usually face aggressive challenges
when the dog is more mature.

Are you going to have some good suggestions if
the dog decides to do that with one of Jason's kids
WON day?

That's what you'd be responsible for...

That's HOWE COME I'm here.

Seems to me that a dog trainer who needs to resort
to fear, force, intimidation and confrontation is hardly
able to outsmart the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.

Nice work getting your degree, but cause you pay the
price doesn't insure you're able to use your head. You
do seem to be a lazy student, though.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to

TEACH GENTLENESS, LOVE, TRUST
and RESPECT, professor?

To DEMONSTRATE SELF DISCIPLINE, professor?

decrease the unwanted biting.

Nothin you suggest is acceptable under
ANY circumstances. Violence is not
subjective. We do not quantify HOWE
much abuse we shall administer today.

That is sick and disgusting.

Furthermore, a human being is not a mother dog. We
cannot compete with them on their level effectively. Mom
dogs abuse their puppies just like HOWE they're taught
by their abusive moms and handlers. Puppy bitches
CHALLENGE and FIGHT with mom and sibling bitches.

That's all part of NATURE'S PLAN to prevent inbreeding.

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment

And your dog is NHOWE DYING ON YOU
as a RESULT of the constant stress of
varialbly reinforced punishment.

(I would hold my dog's mouth closed for a few seconds.)

To teach it to RELAX, TRUST and NOT TO GRAB you...

whereas "Bad Dog" came

From your fear, anger, ignorance, descartean
university trainin and colossal ego, professor.

before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

The kind of PUNISHMENT that teaches unconditional
love, gentleness trust and RESPECT for your HIGHER
INTELLIGENCE, LEADERSHIP, CARING, and your
measure of self control and confidence, professor?

In the past thirty years of my professional dog training
career, punishment has not ever been used on any of
the dogs I've worked.

Punishment causes misery. Misery causes aversion to
the handler, not the behavior. The dog will not want to
be the best he can for you under punitive situations.

Confrontation, physical force, intimidation cause
STRESS and ANXIETY which are not conducive
to the learning situation. They may result in similar
symptoms to post traumatic stress disorder.

My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually sufficient
but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop a behavior. "Bad
Dog" ALWAYS works.

Yeah. It's causes Maxie to have OCD'S and LIFE
THREATENING, STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME.

I then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog"
when he is appropriately behaving.

You mean, AFTER THE FACT.

My dogs never do things requiring discipline, they
have obviated those behaviors through the process
of learning, not through the process of being corrected.

People who use force and confrontation on their dogs
are constantly having to address behavior problems
that manifest as a result of the punished behavior being
trainsferred to other substitute behaviors.

That's one of the many subtitles of dog behavior
the good doc needs to learn a little more about.

In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.

Timing is everything. There is never any time that
punishment is justifiable. Not ever. It is unnecessary
and creates other behavior problems when it does
not work.

Your risk of causing the dog to turn on its owners
by the age of eighteen months is roughly ten percent.

Those are the dogs that I work with very often. Their
stories are all the same. The people followed the advice
of the Monks or Koehler and used all the group classes
for months to control escalating malbehaviors and pushed
it to the point where the dog is aggressive with the family.

I'm F'n tired of seeing that happen.

That's HOWE COME I'm here.

I'm here to tell you you got another think coming.
You are dead wrong and dogs and people die
unnecessarily as a result of those kinds of handling
methods.

Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting
hot" or "your getting cold." If the delay between the
behavior and the consquence is too long then the
behavior will not appropriately change.

Your getting colder. You've got time, stick around,
maybe some good information will rub off on you.


--Marshall
I have listed below, in rank order, ( 1 =3D "The Best")
my favorite sources.

That will serve as an INDICTMENT of their INFORMATION.

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has
generated more complaints to my personal
email than any other controversial post I have
made to date, bar none?:

If you have to do things to your dog to train him,
that you would rather not have to do, then you
shouldn't be doing them. If you have a dog trainer
that tells you to jerk your dog around, shock, or
punish him in any manner, that corrections are
appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or
they can't train your dog to do what you want, look
for a trainer that knows Howe.


1=2E Overall, K. L. (1997). _Clinical behavioral medicine for small
animals._ St.Louis: Mosby

Professor Overall has earned many degrees (MS,
VMD, PhD) and is certified by the Animal Behavior
Society as an Applied Animal Behaviorist.

See "Hole Diggin."

2=2E Diane Blackman's Fun with Your Dog:

Diane has compiled "tons" of information about dogs.
This work in progress reveals Diane's tremendous love
and respect for dogs.

Master Of Deception blankman is a liar and dog
abuser and active long term incurable MENTAL
CASE. She beats her dog in the face with a
shepherd's crook and jerks and chokes them
on pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shocks
and sprays aversives in their faces.


3=2E Prof.Mark Plonsky's Fabulous Site:

Mark's site has won numerous awards. It is VERY complete.

Yeah. He's your associate at UofWI. His site endorses
the most viciHOWES methods on the WWW.

4=2E Frequently Asked Questions

Cindy Tittle Moore has written the "classic" Usenet source for
information about pets.

sindy SADIST mooreon has been banned from two
obedience clubs. Only redeemin quality she's got
is SHE DOESN'T LIE to DEFEND HER ABUSE.

She sez NUTHIN and continues HURTIN dogs
with her PARTNER lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

5=2E Karen Pryor's Web Site:

Discover clicker training and training resources.
Clicker training is apositive approach!


karen pryor KILLED HER KAT cause she couldn't
C/T it not to **** and **** in her stove top. Clicker
training INCREASES ANXIETY and can cause
OCD behavior problems AND seizures, adn FAILS
10% of the time soon as the animal can find access
to FOOD.

Also check out this URL for more on clicker training:

6=2E Gary Wilkes's Click & Treat Web Site:

Much excellent training information.

Yeah? You was highly impressed with gary's new
development: "DELAYED PUNISHMENT".


snip BUNK

Jerome Bigge writes:
I do know that hitting, hurting
your dog will often make the
dog either aggressive or a fear
biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

And neither does anyone else,
Jerome. No matter
what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

You're scary Marilyn.

Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
individual. I feel very sorry for her
and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

BUT, giving you the benefit of the
doubt, please provide a quote (an
original quote, not from one of Jerry
Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
shows a regular poster promoting or
using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you
should knee the dog in the chest, step on
its toes, throw him down by his ears and
climb all over it like a raped ape growling
into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or
leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.

"BethF" wrote in message
...

"Frank" wrote in message
om...
URK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
...
"brianev" wrote:
I ENJOYED reading your book, and
AGREED with what you had to say.
I find it sick to hear what people
do with their dogs.

Keep in mind that everything he says that
the regular posters of this ng do to their
dogs are lies.

All of it. Every last bit.

All of it?
Ear pinching?
Shock collars?
Spiked chokers?
The regulars lie more in their denials than
Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
would see denials when everyone has Jerry
killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
let alone respond to them.

"Rocky" wrote in message
. 1.4...

Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

When you compare using sound and
praise to solve a problem with using
shock collars, hanging, and punishment
how can you criticize the use of sound?

There's nothing more to be said, then.
You've made up your mind.

But you've impressed me by mentioning
that you're a professor with 30 years of
experience.

So, can you cite some examples of
people recommending "shock collars,
hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...

Di,

I don't believe you mentioned a particular
kind of training. If you are interested in
training retrieval behavior than do
consider our own Amy Dahl's:

The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
Well-Mannered, Obedient and
Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
--Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer )
In article
writes:

-snip headers etc.

Yes. you're right, I really should find
the book.. they don't have these books
in the local pet stores I frequent, where
do you find Koehler?

I got a nice large print copy from
Amazon.com

Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.

Koehler Method Of Dog
Training by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and scream "NO!" into its face for 5
seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.

The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

From: Paul B )
Subject: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to
every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Paul.

--------------------------

The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
of their environment which we create for them.

ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"Ted Rumple" wrote in message
om...

Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!

I can't wait until the new version is available for human
children!

Thank you for your service to humanity!

ANAL-yize THIS, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

THAT'S INSANE. AIN'T IT, professor dermer.

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {}TPW ; ~ }

P=2ES. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P=2EP.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall Dermer"
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
Sent: Friday, July
23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard


Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?

Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/
University of Wisconsin- -Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
WI 53201
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

--------------------------------------

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {}TPW ; ~ }