My dog was attacked this evening. Luckily he seems to be unharmed but
it is easy to imagine that he could have been killed.

Here is an account of what happened.

My dog is a 9 year old black lab and german shepard mix that weighs
about 75 lbs. I've had him for about 2 years and I can say with
confidence that he is very friendly and unaggressive. He socializes
with other dogs almost every day when I take him for his morning walk
and when ever another dog is aggressive towards him (e.g. snaps at him
because he is trying to sniff them) he runs away from the
confrontation. He has been in 2 "real" fights where one dog actually
makes physical biting contact with another. In both instances he
immediately tried to disengage from the conflict. He is about as
unaggressive as a dog can be without being one of those dogs that flops
down on the ground in submission every time it meets a strange dog.

I took my dog out for his regular evening walk. As is my usual
practice, I took him to a nearby park where I let him off the leash.

30 seconds later I hear someone shouting "get him away" and then I hear
a high pitch yelping over and over. As I am running toward the sound
(into the moonlit park) I see a large white mixed breed dog (90 lbs?)
that has my dogs neck in his jaws. I grab a hold of the dog, getting
behind him on his back and try to pull it off my dog. I try prying at
its jaws with my hands but have no luck. The dogs owner tells me to
stop trying to pull the dogs apart so I stop. He then eventually
(another 30 seconds later?) coaxes his dog to let my dog go. My dog
immediately comes to me and we leave the park.

When I got to the street where there was light I check my dogs physical
condition and he seemed OK. We walked home (3 minutes away) and I
checked him again more thoroughly and found no injuries that required I
take him to the vet.

End of story.

* Beginning of discussion about story.

OK, in retrospect I realize that there are many things I can do to
avoid the attack (e.g. not letting my dog off the leash in the park
when it is dark) and I plan to make the corresponding changes in my dog
walking procedure.

Still, if the other dogs owner had not been successful at getting his
dog to disengage his dog likely would have KILLED MY DOG. His dog was
definitely a mixed breed that included 'fighting dog' in its heritage.
I don't have any axe to grind about 'aggressive' breeds. I've known
many dogs of so called 'dangerous' breeds that were fine dogs.

I do have a problem when someone elses dog attacks my dog unprovoked
and tries to kill my dog.

The big question: imagine the scenario above taking place again but
this time the attacking dog, lets call him "Bowser" can not be
disengaged from my dogs throat. Short of shooting Bowser dead with a
gun (I don't plan to pack any heat) what is the best way of
"persuading" Bowser to disengage from my dog? Here are some options
that have crossed my mind:

(1) a electrical shocking 'stun gun'.
(2) killing Bowser by cutting his throat with a knife.
(3) wacking Bowser with a baseball bat or axe handle.
(4) ???


Against fighting dogs that "lock on" with their jaws I don't think (1)
would be very effective. Perhaps it would stimulate Bowser to bite
down harder...

(2) should be effective if I can cut a major artery so that the Bowser
looses consciousness quickly.

Even if (3) breaks Bowser's neck that might still leave his jaw locked
and functional.

You might suggest that I call the police and then sit idlely by and my
dog dies but that is a difficult option for me to accept.

This is all mostly theoretical as I will be doing a better job of
avoiding dangerous dogs in the future.

Here is the best plan I've come up with so far:

(a) tell the dogs owner to get his f@#$ing dog off my now.

If (a) doesn't succeed pretty darn quick then:

(b) dial 911 on my cell phone and tell the operator where I am.
(c) put my phone down, take out my knife and kill Bowser and quickly as
I can.

I'm not interested in hearing you tell me that I'm an asshole for doing
xxx or wanting to do yyy. I'm not interested in hearing about how
breed zzz is bad or that Bowser's owner is a bad person. I am
interested in hearing discussions on the topic of "how do I defend my
dog that is being attacked by another dog".

Regards,
--jfc

On 16 Apr 2005 00:55:16 -0700 jonathan cano whittled these words:
My dog was attacked this evening. Luckily he seems to be unharmed but
it is easy to imagine that he could have been killed.


30 seconds later I hear someone shouting "get him away" and then I hear
a high pitch yelping over and over. As I am running toward the sound
(into the moonlit park) I see a large white mixed breed dog (90 lbs?)
that has my dogs neck in his jaws. I grab a hold of the dog, getting
behind him on his back and try to pull it off my dog. I try prying at
its jaws with my hands but have no luck. The dogs owner tells me to
stop trying to pull the dogs apart so I stop. He then eventually
(another 30 seconds later?) coaxes his dog to let my dog go. My dog
immediately comes to me and we leave the park.

When I got to the street where there was light I check my dogs physical
condition and he seemed OK. We walked home (3 minutes away) and I
checked him again more thoroughly and found no injuries that required I
take him to the vet.

End of story.

* Beginning of discussion about story.

OK, in retrospect I realize that there are many things I can do to
avoid the attack (e.g. not letting my dog off the leash in the park
when it is dark) and I plan to make the corresponding changes in my dog
walking procedure.

Still, if the other dogs owner had not been successful at getting his
dog to disengage his dog likely would have KILLED MY DOG. His dog was

Probably not. If your dog was uninjured then it was likely one of those
situations that is terribly scary but more sound than anything else.

definitely a mixed breed that included 'fighting dog' in its heritage.
I don't have any axe to grind about 'aggressive' breeds. I've known
many dogs of so called 'dangerous' breeds that were fine dogs.

I do have a problem when someone elses dog attacks my dog unprovoked
and tries to kill my dog.

Sure, and that is a reasonable feeling.

The big question: imagine the scenario above taking place again but
this time the attacking dog, lets call him "Bowser" can not be
disengaged from my dogs throat. Short of shooting Bowser dead with a
gun (I don't plan to pack any heat) what is the best way of
"persuading" Bowser to disengage from my dog? Here are some options
that have crossed my mind:

(1) a electrical shocking 'stun gun'.
(2) killing Bowser by cutting his throat with a knife.
(3) wacking Bowser with a baseball bat or axe handle.
(4) ???

Cuting a dogs throat is not that easy nor quick. In 99% of the cases you
can disengage the dog without resort to injurious or deadly force,
although I understand the impluse to not care about that.

If a dog as a grip my reaction has been to take control of the dog's head.
THe one time I needed to do so was with a German Shepherd. I ended up
putting a choke hold on the dog. As long as you can keep the dog from
shaking and tearing it is unlikely your dog will be seriously injured or
killed - given the releative sizes we are discussing (not talking about
tiny dog to big dog here)

Against fighting dogs that "lock on" with their jaws I don't think (1)
would be very effective. Perhaps it would stimulate Bowser to bite
down harder...

No jaws "lock". They simply grip and hold instead of letting go or
tearing.

(2) should be effective if I can cut a major artery so that the Bowser
looses consciousness quickly.

Choke hold is easier, more effective, and less messy. Also you don't need
to carry anything to accomplish it. However in 99 percent of the cases
all you really need to do is grab the offending dogs reas legs, lift and
walk backwards. That risks a bite to you

Even if (3) breaks Bowser's neck that might still leave his jaw locked
and functional.

No. Jaws don't "lock"

You might suggest that I call the police and then sit idlely by and my
dog dies but that is a difficult option for me to accept.

no worries I wouldn't stand idly by either. But as I said if you control
the offending dog's head actual risk to your dog is minimal - as long as
your dog isn't actually choking. ANd cutting off the air supply of the
offending dog will work.

This is all mostly theoretical as I will be doing a better job of
avoiding dangerous dogs in the future.

Good that is the ideal.

Here is the best plan I've come up with so far:

(a) tell the dogs owner to get his f@#$ing dog off my now.

If (a) doesn't succeed pretty darn quick then:

(b) dial 911 on my cell phone and tell the operator where I am.
(c) put my phone down, take out my knife and kill Bowser and quickly as
I can.

Personally even if I had a knife I wouldn't use it. Too much can go
wrong. For best avoidance carry an air horn. Use it if another dog
approaches yours without appropriae canine greeting. That way you can
repel the dog without worrying about whether it is friendly but rude or
unfriendly and risky.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

I suggest you read the article at the following web site on the proper way
to break up a dog fight without anyone you or the dogs getting hurt.
http://www.leerburg.com/dogfight.htm







"jonathan cano" wrote in message
ups.com...
My dog was attacked this evening. Luckily he seems to be unharmed but
it is easy to imagine that he could have been killed.

Here is an account of what happened.

My dog is a 9 year old black lab and german shepard mix that weighs
about 75 lbs. I've had him for about 2 years and I can say with
confidence that he is very friendly and unaggressive. He socializes
with other dogs almost every day when I take him for his morning walk
and when ever another dog is aggressive towards him (e.g. snaps at him
because he is trying to sniff them) he runs away from the
confrontation. He has been in 2 "real" fights where one dog actually
makes physical biting contact with another. In both instances he
immediately tried to disengage from the conflict. He is about as
unaggressive as a dog can be without being one of those dogs that flops
down on the ground in submission every time it meets a strange dog.

I took my dog out for his regular evening walk. As is my usual
practice, I took him to a nearby park where I let him off the leash.

30 seconds later I hear someone shouting "get him away" and then I hear
a high pitch yelping over and over. As I am running toward the sound
(into the moonlit park) I see a large white mixed breed dog (90 lbs?)
that has my dogs neck in his jaws. I grab a hold of the dog, getting
behind him on his back and try to pull it off my dog. I try prying at
its jaws with my hands but have no luck. The dogs owner tells me to
stop trying to pull the dogs apart so I stop. He then eventually
(another 30 seconds later?) coaxes his dog to let my dog go. My dog
immediately comes to me and we leave the park.

When I got to the street where there was light I check my dogs physical
condition and he seemed OK. We walked home (3 minutes away) and I
checked him again more thoroughly and found no injuries that required I
take him to the vet.

End of story.

* Beginning of discussion about story.

OK, in retrospect I realize that there are many things I can do to
avoid the attack (e.g. not letting my dog off the leash in the park
when it is dark) and I plan to make the corresponding changes in my dog
walking procedure.

Still, if the other dogs owner had not been successful at getting his
dog to disengage his dog likely would have KILLED MY DOG. His dog was
definitely a mixed breed that included 'fighting dog' in its heritage.
I don't have any axe to grind about 'aggressive' breeds. I've known
many dogs of so called 'dangerous' breeds that were fine dogs.

I do have a problem when someone elses dog attacks my dog unprovoked
and tries to kill my dog.

The big question: imagine the scenario above taking place again but
this time the attacking dog, lets call him "Bowser" can not be
disengaged from my dogs throat. Short of shooting Bowser dead with a
gun (I don't plan to pack any heat) what is the best way of
"persuading" Bowser to disengage from my dog? Here are some options
that have crossed my mind:

(1) a electrical shocking 'stun gun'.
(2) killing Bowser by cutting his throat with a knife.
(3) wacking Bowser with a baseball bat or axe handle.
(4) ???


Against fighting dogs that "lock on" with their jaws I don't think (1)
would be very effective. Perhaps it would stimulate Bowser to bite
down harder...

(2) should be effective if I can cut a major artery so that the Bowser
looses consciousness quickly.

Even if (3) breaks Bowser's neck that might still leave his jaw locked
and functional.

You might suggest that I call the police and then sit idlely by and my
dog dies but that is a difficult option for me to accept.

This is all mostly theoretical as I will be doing a better job of
avoiding dangerous dogs in the future.

Here is the best plan I've come up with so far:

(a) tell the dogs owner to get his f@#$ing dog off my now.

If (a) doesn't succeed pretty darn quick then:

(b) dial 911 on my cell phone and tell the operator where I am.
(c) put my phone down, take out my knife and kill Bowser and quickly as
I can.

I'm not interested in hearing you tell me that I'm an asshole for doing
xxx or wanting to do yyy. I'm not interested in hearing about how
breed zzz is bad or that Bowser's owner is a bad person. I am
interested in hearing discussions on the topic of "how do I defend my
dog that is being attacked by another dog".

Regards,
--jfc

Thanks for the advice. The air horn, dogfight.htm and choke hold
suggestions are good ones. Avoiding deadly force is preferable.

Any comments on pepper spray type chemicals with regards to their
efficacy in breaking up a dog fight?

Regards,
--jfc

I don't even know that I'd go with pepper spray or mace. I saw a dog warden
mace a pit bull not once but three times trying to get a control stick on
the dog and it didn't phase him one bit it only pissed the dog off even
more.

Celeste




"jonathan cano" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the advice. The air horn, dogfight.htm and choke hold
suggestions are good ones. Avoiding deadly force is preferable.

Any comments on pepper spray type chemicals with regards to their
efficacy in breaking up a dog fight?

Regards,
--jfc

How to keep my dog from being killed

Group: rec.pets.dogs.misc Date: Sat, Apr 16, 2005, 2:01pm (EDT+4) From:
(Spot)
I suggest you read the article at the following web site on the proper
way to break up a dog fight without anyone you or the dogs getting hurt.
http://www.leerburg.com/dogfight.htm
"jonathan cano" wrote in message
ups.com...
My dog was attacked this evening. Luckily he seems to be unharmed but it
is easy to imagine that he could have been killed.
Here is an account of what happened.
My dog is a 9 year old black lab and german shepard mix that weighs
about 75 lbs. I've had him for about 2 years and I can say with
confidence that he is very friendly and unaggressive. He socializes with
other dogs almost every day when I take him for his morning walk and
when ever another dog is aggressive towards him (e.g. snaps at him
because he is trying to sniff them) he runs away from the confrontation.
He has been in 2 "real" fights where one dog actually makes physical
biting contact with another. In both instances he immediately tried to
disengage from the conflict. He is about as unaggressive as a dog can be
without being one of those dogs that flops down on the ground in
submission every time it meets a strange dog.
I took my dog out for his regular evening walk. As is my usual practice,
I took him to a nearby park where I let him off the leash.
30 seconds later I hear someone shouting "get him away" and then I hear
a high pitch yelping over and over. As I am running toward the sound
(into the moonlit park) I see a large white mixed breed dog (90 lbs?)
that has my dogs neck in his jaws. I grab a hold of the dog, getting
behind him on his back and try to pull it off my dog. I try prying at
its jaws with my hands but have no luck. The dogs owner tells me to stop
trying to pull the dogs apart so I stop. He then eventually (another 30
seconds later?) coaxes his dog to let my dog go. My dog immediately
comes to me and we leave the park.
When I got to the street where there was light I check my dogs physical
condition and he seemed OK. We walked home (3 minutes away) and I
checked him again more thoroughly and found no injuries that required I
take him to the vet.
End of story.
* Beginning of discussion about story.
OK, in retrospect I realize that there are many things I can do to avoid
the attack (e.g. not letting my dog off the leash in the park when it is
dark) and I plan to make the corresponding changes in my dog walking
procedure.
Still, if the other dogs owner had not been successful at getting his
dog to disengage his dog likely would have KILLED MY DOG. His dog was
definitely a mixed breed that included 'fighting dog' in its heritage. I
don't have any axe to grind about 'aggressive' breeds. I've known many
dogs of so called 'dangerous' breeds that were fine dogs.
I do have a problem when someone elses dog attacks my dog unprovoked and
tries to kill my dog.
The big question: imagine the scenario above taking place again but this
time the attacking dog, lets call him "Bowser" can not be disengaged
from my dogs throat. Short of shooting Bowser dead with a gun (I don't
plan to pack any heat) what is the best way of "persuading" Bowser to
disengage from my dog? Here are some options that have crossed my mind:
(1) a electrical shocking 'stun gun'.
(2) killing Bowser by cutting his throat with a knife.
(3) wacking Bowser with a baseball bat or axe handle.
(4) ???
Against fighting dogs that "lock on" with their jaws I don't think (1)
would be very effective. Perhaps it would stimulate Bowser to bite down
harder...
(2) should be effective if I can cut a major artery so that the Bowser
looses consciousness quickly.
Even if (3) breaks Bowser's neck that might still leave his jaw locked
and functional.
You might suggest that I call the police and then sit idlely by and my
dog dies but that is a difficult option for me to accept.
This is all mostly theoretical as I will be doing a better job of
avoiding dangerous dogs in the future.
Here is the best plan I've come up with so far:
(a) tell the dogs owner to get his f@#$ing dog off my now.
If (a) doesn't succeed pretty darn quick then:
(b) dial 911 on my cell phone and tell the operator where I am.
(c) put my phone down, take out my knife and kill Bowser and quickly as
I can.
I'm not interested in hearing you tell me that I'm an asshole for doing
xxx or wanting to do yyy. I'm not interested in hearing about how
breed zzz is bad or that Bowser's owner is a bad person. I am
interested in hearing discussions on the topic of "how do I defend my
dog that is being attacked by another dog".
Regards,
=A0=A0--jfc


I am going to save this info plus forward it to all my other email addys
I have. Just wish I had this on paper. GOOD INFO. THANKS