On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:09:10 -0500 Ken Hall whittled these words:

I've read in three or four books and articles that one way to
discipline a dog that's exhibiting aggression is to roll them onto
their back into the "submissive" position.

SEveral of the books that had that have removed that advice from newr
additions. It is a method that tends to get people bitten. It sets the
relationship as one of conflict instead of cooperation. Theree are more
effective ways to get control of an agressive dog. John Rogerson's "The
Aggressive Dog" video is excellent at showing effective
non-confrontational methods of turning the relationship around. And
"non-confrontational" does not mean permissive. A good part of it is
understanding the dog a bit better. Dogs OFFER submission, they cannot be
forced into it.

Either I'm doing something wrong or this has no effect on my dog. He
lunges, barks and growls very aggressively at other dogs, and would
attack them if not restrained. In an attempt to stop this behavior I
have been trying the rollover method. When I put him on his back, at
first he continues to struggle with me. When the struggling finally
stops, he remains muscle tensed ready to leap back into action when
released. He never relaxes or becomes submissive as the articles
suggest he should.

This is typical of the dog that is nervous about other dogs - and is
taking "a good offense is better than a good defense" approach to the
fear. Your appropach isn't doing anything to make the dog feel less
fearful.

Supressing the behavior without addressing its cause can result in a very
dangerous situation. It too often results in a lack of warning when the
dog is feeling a need ot react. It creates the typical situation where
people think an attact has come without any warning.

The most effective solution will be to work with a competent
skilled trainer who has available reliable dogs of predictable behavior.
The trainer works with you and the dog to reduce your dog's anxiety level
and also to improve your dog's obedience level.


While you are looking for a trainer work hard to avoid situations where
you cannot guarantee the behavior of the other dog. The Ian Dunbar vidoes
may also be useful to you in avoiding making the problem worse. The
timing of your response is critical. You should remove your dog from
the zone of reaction before your dog actual reacts. THis requires
diligent attenton to your surroundings, and deliberate and calm behavior
on your part. Most people are unware of the signals they are sending to
their dog. An experienced outside eye will bring it to your attention and
teach you how not to do that.

You may find some useful pointers to trainers and other resources here
http://www.dog-play.com/behaivor.html

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

He never relaxes or becomes submissive as the articles
suggest he should.


Any comments?

Here ya go, some articles on why the dominance theory is incorrec :

http://www.k9chops.com/articles/dognotwolf.html

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti.../dominance.htm

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2001/macho.htm

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!