Yesterday, the weather was incredible. My husband and I decided to take the
dogs on a walk around a small city park. The two dogs mentioned are
terriers. (one is a 2yo Boston, the other a 11/2yo mixed terrier) Both
females, both spayed. Weight for each is about 12-14lbs. Both have had
basic "good behavior" classes. I guess you might call it puppy obedience.
I was walking the Boston, and because she is so much more behaved with a
choke collar. (I don't "choke" her, but use it for minor corrections) She
is wonderfully behaved with her work collar on. My husband was walking the
mixed terrier. She only was hooked to her regular collar. She has been
worked with a choke collar also, and is well behaved with it. But my
husband chose not to use it yesterday. Of course, the dog pulled, choking
herself and gagging the whole way. My husband, seeing my "corrections" with
the choke collars and seeing results, tried the same technique with the
regular collar. Of course, it was a dismal attempt. I pointed out that not
only was it not good for the dog, that the slight jerks put too much stress
on the throat and airway, but that it was ineffective, so he was only
reinforcing the fact that the dog could disobey.
Any input?
Thanks.
Perry

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:08:19 -0500, "Perry Templeton"
, wrote:

I pointed out that not
only was it not good for the dog, that the slight jerks put too much stress
on the throat and airway, but that it was ineffective, so he was only
reinforcing the fact that the dog could disobey.
Any input?

you were right! For even less stress on the airways, particularly
with the Boston, I like pinch collars. I also never attach a leash to
an ID collar - I want that to not ever pop off by mistake (pop open,
get backed out of, etc).

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

To the poster who replied offlist..
The Boston (who is not as brachiocephalic as most Bostons) is very well
behaved and only needs, receives minor corrections. The other little
terrier is not in the least brachiocephalic.
And yes, I do realise that a dog pulling on a collar is "not trained". One
has to start somewhere, however. My question is an attempt to gather
comments on why I think my husband's attempt at correcting with the regular
collar is soooo counterproductive.
Perry

"Perry Templeton" wrote in message
t...
Yesterday, the weather was incredible. My husband and I decided to take
the dogs on a walk around a small city park. The two dogs mentioned are
terriers. (one is a 2yo Boston, the other a 11/2yo mixed terrier) Both
females, both spayed. Weight for each is about 12-14lbs. Both have had
basic "good behavior" classes. I guess you might call it puppy obedience.
I was walking the Boston, and because she is so much more behaved with a
choke collar. (I don't "choke" her, but use it for minor corrections)
She is wonderfully behaved with her work collar on. My husband was
walking the mixed terrier. She only was hooked to her regular collar.
She has been worked with a choke collar also, and is well behaved with it.
But my husband chose not to use it yesterday. Of course, the dog pulled,
choking herself and gagging the whole way. My husband, seeing my
"corrections" with the choke collars and seeing results, tried the same
technique with the regular collar. Of course, it was a dismal attempt. I
pointed out that not only was it not good for the dog, that the slight
jerks put too much stress on the throat and airway, but that it was
ineffective, so he was only reinforcing the fact that the dog could
disobey.
Any input?
Thanks.
Perry

Any input?
Thanks.

Yes. Ditch the choke chains and teach your dog to walk next to you
using Positive Reinforcement based methods. At this point, your choke
chains sound pretty useless, your dogs are still pulling and choking
themseleves. Plus you are having to correct them all the time.

Here is a good website that talks about all kinds of behavior problems.
It's a clicker sight, but you don't have to use a clicker to train
your dog with PR based training

I teach my dogs to walk next to me on command way before I ever put a
leash on them. That way there is no problem when I do attach the
leash.

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm

"Ronna" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any input?
Thanks.

Yes. Ditch the choke chains and teach your dog to walk next to you
using Positive Reinforcement based methods. At this point, your choke
chains sound pretty useless, your dogs are still pulling and choking
themseleves. Plus you are having to correct them all the time.


Did you even read the original post?

Perry

In article ,
Perry Templeton wrote:
Did you even read the original post?

I think her basic point still stands, whether the dog was
wearing a choke collar or a flat collar. In horse terms,
you want to keep the dog "off your hands." Pulling is a
self-rewarding activity for dogs that like to pull (and
that's one of them-there tautologies). For a lot of dogs
that like to lean on the collar, teaching them where they
*should* be relative to the human rather than trying to
teach them to get off the collar can be effective. It can
also be a good alternative for someone who's got lousy
training collar technique, although like most other training
it does require decent timing.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On 20 Jun 2005 12:17:20 -0400, (Melinda Shore), wrote:


I think her basic point still stands, whether the dog was
wearing a choke collar or a flat collar. In horse terms,
you want to keep the dog "off your hands." Pulling is a
self-rewarding activity for dogs that like to pull (and
that's one of them-there tautologies). For a lot of dogs
that like to lean on the collar, teaching them where they
*should* be relative to the human rather than trying to
teach them to get off the collar can be effective. It can
also be a good alternative for someone who's got lousy
training collar technique, although like most other training
it does require decent timing.
--

I think there may also be a case of the Boston knowing the collar is
on, still may challenge once in awhile (not straining against it) and
walks well knowing it's "there".

Fact is, that I think most people (APO) do a little basic training,
but still always need the tools as a back up if nothing else. the
wearing of a choke alone does not mean the dogs is getting
corrections, or a lot of them.

My dogs almost always wear slip collars when on leash. I don't hook
to ID collars and slip collars fit well in my pocket when I take them
off the dogs. They are merely something around the necks to hook the
leashes to.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

Thanks Janet. I think maybe you are one who actually *gets* my post. I am
not disputing the fact that more training is in order and lots of it. (just
for the record, after nearly two years, I am able to come up for air, after
taking care of my dad) There is a lot to catch up on.
My question is something that I can tell my husband, who was attempting to
use the regular collar as a correction type collar, aside from looking like
an idiot and the dog being totally unaffected, except for her antics being
jerked around on a leash like a trout caught on a fly rod and
hacking/choking like a cat with a hairball.
My query is that I'm looking for something to tell my husband that will make
sense to him..rather than me just being the wife who fusses about how he
handles the dogs. (I *don't* like the way he handles them, he is very
ineffective.)

Perry

"Janet B" wrote in message
...
On 20 Jun 2005 12:17:20 -0400, (Melinda Shore), wrote:


I think her basic point still stands, whether the dog was
wearing a choke collar or a flat collar. In horse terms,
you want to keep the dog "off your hands." Pulling is a
self-rewarding activity for dogs that like to pull (and
that's one of them-there tautologies). For a lot of dogs
that like to lean on the collar, teaching them where they
*should* be relative to the human rather than trying to
teach them to get off the collar can be effective. It can
also be a good alternative for someone who's got lousy
training collar technique, although like most other training
it does require decent timing.
--

I think there may also be a case of the Boston knowing the collar is
on, still may challenge once in awhile (not straining against it) and
walks well knowing it's "there".

Fact is, that I think most people (APO) do a little basic training,
but still always need the tools as a back up if nothing else. the
wearing of a choke alone does not mean the dogs is getting
corrections, or a lot of them.

My dogs almost always wear slip collars when on leash. I don't hook
to ID collars and slip collars fit well in my pocket when I take them
off the dogs. They are merely something around the necks to hook the
leashes to.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:54:56 -0500, "Perry Templeton"
wrote:

My query is that I'm looking for something to tell my husband that will make
sense to him..rather than me just being the wife who fusses about how he
handles the dogs. (I *don't* like the way he handles them, he is very
ineffective.)

how about: "you're hurting the dog. her airway can be permanently
damaged by being choked and your behavior is undermining what training
she has."

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Let each man exercise the art he knows.
-- Aristophanes, Wasps

In article ,
Perry Templeton wrote:
My query is that I'm looking for something to tell my husband that will make
sense to him..rather than me just being the wife who fusses about how he
handles the dogs.

I think the point is that you don't just have to give the
dog something else to do, you also have to give your husband
something else to do. I would also think that he'd be kind
of pleased that you've asked him to help train the dog.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community