Don't fret, DaveR...

It's better you didn't get a response from AssHowe. I tried calling
him and he's as obnoxious and insane as he is here.

His manual did not work for me either, yet he will go on and on about
how it is "100% successful" when it truly is not...hence, he's a
complete liar.

This guy is so out of touch with reality it's crazy. I mean, the
phrase "a dog is a dog" is insane in itself. But then we get to "a
child is a child" - so all children are exactly the same? The "a
spouse is a spouse" - so ALL spouses are the same? Do you see how
mentally ****ed up this guy is? I mean, he's telling us my wife is
exactly the same as every wife out there. How incredibly ridiculous is
this? And my son is EXACTLY the same as every 8-year old on the
planet...what is he smoking?!?

Just ignore any advice he gives out...

Pat


wrote:
HOWEDY daver,

From: YourLastInnocentHonestQuestionAnswered@HushMail
DaveR wrote:
Puppy Wizard,

You mean HOWEDY The Amazing Puppy Wizard, daver {); ~ )

HOWE is it possible to take you serioHOWEsly based on your posts?

ONL LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE
LONG TERM INCURABLE CHRONIC MENTAL CASES who
HURT INTIMIDATE CRATE BRIBE SURGICALLY SEXUALLY
MUTILATE and MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS and BLAME
THE DOG, POST HERE abHOWETS, daver {) : ~ (

I actually read your manual

Like HEEL you did. You skimmed through it lookin for QUICK FIX
solutions to a GENERAL problem and YOU GOT YOUR JUST
DESSERTS, daver.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS
forty sumpthin years and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD
WORLD REPORT THEIR 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESS RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums And School Of HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, daver {); ~ )

YOU'RE SETTIN IN IT.

Your newfHOWEND pals call their CASE HISTORIES LIES
and their posts FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy Wizard.

The ONLY reason HOWE COME they post here abHOWETS
is on accHOWENT of DOG LOVERS like yourself KEEP PULLIN
THEIR CHAINS and entreTRAINING them with the opportunity
to IMPRESS you with HURTIN INTIMDIATING and MURDERIN
dogs JUST LIKE HOWE THEY DO, daver. DID YOU HAPPEN
TO NOTICE THAT?

and against the advice of the other "murderers" here,

Your PALS CALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students LARS and their posts FORGERIES and teach
ignorant fearful guillible needy greedy folks like yourself
HOWE to lock their dogs in boxes bribe and jerk choke
shock intimidate and MURDER your dogs.

90% of veterinary treatment goes for IDIOPATHIC /
IATROGENIC DIS-EASES like CHRONIC EAR / URINARY
TRACT / DIGESTIVE / ADRENAL / PITUITARY / ENDOCRIN /
IMMUNE MEDIATED MYLEAL CELL SYSTEM DIS-EASES and
CANCERS CAUSED BY STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES
aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME {); ~ )

WE GOT ALL THE CASE HISTORY DATA NECESSARY TO PROVE
THOSE FACTS, daver, as YOU ARE SEEING RIGHT NHOWE
with your own dog.

decided it was worth a try,

Did you do the PRELIMINARY EXXXORCISES, daver?

Did you do the Hot & Cold EXXXORCISE and the
Family Pack Leadership EXXXORCISE and INSTALL
the COME COMMAND as a 100% RELIABLE INSTANT
CONDITIONAL REFLEX AS INSTRUCTED in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual, daver,
gentle kindly dog rescuer?

NO. You're TRYIN to BLOW SMOKE up The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's arse, daver, and YOU CAN'T GET
AWAY WITH THAT on accHOWENT of YOUR DOG TELLS
THE TRUE STORY, daver.

DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK.

It's a PRECISE SCIENCE AS TAUGHT in your own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual {); ~ )

and I indicated this to you both on this group

You got A LOTTA NERVE daver, tellin these MENTAL
CASES you TRIED The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual AND IT
DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU... that's IMPOSSIBLE, daver.

OTHERWIZE the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR would be THEORY
and The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS TESTIMONIAL wouldn't be
IN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives {); ~ )

and in private E-mails (to which you do not respond,

ASK RIGHT HERE. THESE ARE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums,
AFTER ALL, AIN'T IT, daver {); ~ )

despite your public invitation to contact you).

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has F'd up his email system
on accHOWENT of HE DIDN'T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS
HISSELF, not bein HIGHLY EDUCATED like your newfHOWEND
pals who CHOKE SHOCK CRATE BEAT BRIBE MUTILATE and
MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS for the SAME PROBLEMS
YOUR DOG GOT, daver.

Look up the recent threads on DOMINANCE PISSIN an SHITTIN,
daver. THOSE ARE ANXXXIHOWESNESS OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
LIKE YOUR DOG IS
DOIN and your newfHOWEND pals are jerking choking crating
and shocking them to make them HAPPY and CALM {) ; ~ )

DOGS DIE FROM THIS CRAP, daver {) : - (

So, meanwhile, HERE'S where you'll FIND HIM.

Even if your dog training technique is a good one,

THAT'S THE PROBLEM, daver. THERE'S ONLY WON RIGHT WAY to pupperly
handle ANY dog child or SP-HOWES, daver.

which I believe it might be,

Your newfHOWEND PALS have advised you to bribe choke and
lock your dog in a box, daver. You HAD ENOUGH YET?

I'm having a hard time trusting it based on the fact that

BASED ON THE FACT YOU WANT TO HURT AND INTIMIDATE
YOUR OWN DOG, daver {); ~ )

BASED ON THAT YOU NEVER STUIDED THE ENTIRE MANUAL
as EVIDENCED BY YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY,
daver {): ~ (

you appear to be, quite insane.

Seems YOU are the WON who's ASKING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES for ADVICE for THE SAME PROBLEMS
THEY GOT AND CAN'T TRAIN, ACCORDING TO THEIR
OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES, daver. Have you been
followin Lucy's thread with the MENTAL CASES, daver?

When they RUN HOWET of INFORMATION and CANNOT
DEFEND their own words and actions they DENY the truth
and call in their PALS from alt.religion.kibology to CONfHOWEND
the subject with innane idiocy, daver. WE GOT SERIHOWES
DANGERHOWESLY ILL MENTAL CASES talkin like they're
RESCUING and FOSTERING dogs while they HURT THEM
to SATISFY THEIR OWN fragile defective ego's, weak fearful
minds and to compensate for their collossal INFERIORITY
COMPLEXES, daver {); ~ (

Where does YOUR psychological profile fit in with these MISFITS, daver?


Seems YOU are the WON who WANTS TO PUNISH your
dog, daver and HASN'T STUDIED and APPLIED the 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL TECHNIQUES as INSTRUCTED in
your own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual {); ~ )

Feel free to respond to my E-mail if you have any
real interest in helping people train their dogs.

Feel FREE to ANSWER The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
QUESTIONS, daver:

1. DID YOU DO THE PRELIMINARY EXXXORCISES.

2. DID YOU INSTALL THE COME COMMAND AS A
100% RELIABLE CONDITIONED REFLEXXX.

3. DID YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE INSTRUCTIONS
PRECISELY and ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard
for additional FREE HEELP if the METHOD DIDN'T
WORK NEARLY INSTANTLY for you, daver?

Your PALS SELL BOOKS VIDEOS and LESSONS THAT DON'T
WORK, daver {); ~ ) Your QUESTIONS ENCOURAGE these
MENTAL CASES to CONTINUE to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER dogs JUST LIKE
YOUR DOG, daver {) : ~ (

The anwers a

1. NO.
2. NO.
3. Yes, prviately, and The Amazing Puppy Wizard
NEVER REPLIED on accHOWENT of HE CAN'T
OPEN HIS Emaals so you asked LYIN DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES to offer their "ADVICE" seein as The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual DOESN'T WORK IF YOU DON'T
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PRECISELY as with ANY
SCIENTIFIC FORMULAE {); ~ )

So DON'T BLAME The Amazing Puppy Wizard's MANUAL for
FAILING TO TELL YOU TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, daver.

IT AIN'T A "GUIDE" daver, it's a PRECISE SCIENTIFIC FORMULAE that GETS
100% CONSISTENT NEARLY
INSTANT SUCCESS, but NOT if YOU DON'T FOLLOW
THE METHOD PRECISELY, and THAT MEANS NO
PUNISHMENT, daver.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard {); ~ )

HERE'S HOWE INSANE The Amazing Puppy Wizard IS:

Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE,
Unconditional
LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT {) ; - )

HOWEDY People!

Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE, Unconditional
LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT {) ; - )

From:
Date: 21 Jul 2005 09:01:23 -0700

Subject: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply -

Rocky wrote:
Lucy afar said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
Well hey. Get back to us when you have a dog
that isn't perfect, mmkay?

ALL TEMPERAMENT AND BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING and therefore can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY
by simply NOT CONTINUING TO MISHANDLE the dog {); ~ )

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes:

"No Loving, No Learning."

From: "The Puppy Wizard"
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

From: "diannes"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: Counter Cruising must stop

LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
I wrote:
LeeCharlesKelley wrote:
On another note: I understand why someone
proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
*doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
underlying that technique.
Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
method, though anyone is welcome to make that leap.
I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
and its model of learning.
Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Dr. Von writes:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
to be able to terminate it.

This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement =3D behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement =3D behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement =3D behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning =3D dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately
turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than the
methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

-------------------

I already HAD such a puppy: he used to bite, he used to
annoy my older dog, he used to make holes in blankets and
dig like mad right in the middle of the sofa. He managed to
chew to pieces a USB cable from the digital camera, a
cellular phone and several history books. Thanks to him I
even had the opportunity to look at the inside of a
computer diskette. He had some other ideas of "home
improvement" that I couldn't agree with - like moving the
content of the garbage bin on the living-room carpet.
In other words, he was acting like a puppy, albeit a
poorly supervised puppy.

Then there must be lots of such puppies among the dogs of the
posters in this group, and they seem to be staying puppies till
the end of their days - despite all your expert training.

Dr. Von wrote:

"I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning."

It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog [...]

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. {} ; ~ )

In other words, your puppy grew up.

Within a few minutes?

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is
no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care."
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine.

Outstanding growing up process this must have been, to occur
after repeating just a few times the dreaded praise for bad
behavior!

Lucy

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

Thurs,Jul 21 2005 2:41 pm
Subject: For Handsome Jack Morrison: Collars - belated reply

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:
[]
The phrase "punish with praise" alone makes my head hurt.
You're now just like Jupiter when Minerva was about to be
born out of his head: it probably explains the very human
reaction to new ideas.
I've always had a fondness for new ideas, theories, etc., Lucy.

"A Completely New Model Of Learning"? Naaah. Pavlov Told
Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student
Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of
Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using
TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggies. {) ; ~ )

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E 3BA2197B

http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/
browse_frm/thread/a94c849289d9e189/2cffe51c95d54362?q=3Dcorson+management=
+leecharleskelley+larry+von&rnum=3D23&hl=3Den#2cff e51c95d54362

It's precisely what made me pursue the concept of using an e-collar
in the training of dogs. Who would have thought that a little
electricity could work so well?

THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS - Keller Breland and Marian Breland:

"However, psychologists as a whole do not seem to be heeding
these admonitions, as Whalen (1961) has pointed out.

Perhaps this reluctance is due in part to some dark
precognition of what they might find in such investigations,
for the ethologists Lorenz (1950, p. 233) and Tinbergen (1951,
p. 6) have warned that if psychologists are to understand and
predict the behavior of organisms, it is essential that they
become thoroughly familiar with the instinctive behavior
patterns of each new species they essay to study":

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O 28A2497B

http://groups-beta.google.com/ group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/m
sg/091dce...

But I don't much care for the folks who offer them up, but
then refuse to adhere to the scientific method while testing/
supporting them:

Subject: R.P.D.B. Syndrome

http://www.phule.net/mirrors/u nskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/fe atures/psp7761121.pdf

UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES IN
RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD TO INFLATED
SELF-ASSESSMENTS

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.

- Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity.

- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.

- Insufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable
from incompetence.

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester. edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/Appendi xE.html
See Part III, Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method.

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's
And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. {} ; ~ )

The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an
explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests.
Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no
test is needed.

Like: "praising the bad behavior would reinforce that behavior".

Another common mistake is to ignore or rule out data which
do not support the hypothesis.

Like your ruling out all the testimonies of success
from those who were following Jerry's method.

------------------------

Everything we've been taught about dog behavior by the
likes of HOWER DOG LOVERS is DEAD WRONG.

"Your Method Takes Positive Training To The Next Level And
Should Really Be Used By All Tainers Who Call Themselves
Trainers," Kay Pierce, Trainer, Thirty Years Experience.

From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Wits end Training

Hi Jerry,
Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
amazing progress almost makes me cry.
Kay Pierce

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D

"Linda" wrote in message

om...

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph.D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG ARE FROM
NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH", ETC looking for help.
We finally went to Purdue University Small Animal Behavior
Clinic and they said he had fear aggression, punishment would
not work, use the gentle leader and when out walking and he
got stressed have the people stop until he could get in control
using treats,and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when I
tried to catch him.
I was afraid to walk him even in the neighborhood as we had
become that "mean dog and women who hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two were
so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one said
I should give up on him and kill him but they would say
"You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 month!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: - dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the
street until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

Sometimes, however, a scientist may have a strong belief that the
hypothesis is true (or false), or feels internal or external pressure
to get a specific result. In that case, there may be a psychological
tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic effects, with
data which do not support the scientist's expectations, while data
which do agree with those expectations may not be checked as
carefully.

Like assuming that an e-collar is safer than praising bad behavior,
just because you don't believe that praising bad behavior in order
to stop it would work.

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting
the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once
and won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message

news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

In a field where there is active experimentation and open
communication among members of the scientific community, the biases
of individuals or groups may cancel out, because experimental tests
are repeated by different scientists who may have different biases.

That's exactly why I think that it's so important that you and other
trainers who are convinced that Jerry's method doesn't work should
try it, in your own hands.

"Terri"@cyberhighway dogsnuts wrote:

Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his
posts and watching him extract his soggy foot
out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I've
only seen 2 naive childs come forward and
actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive
childs since I freely admit to having read and, I
hope, understood enough of the manual and it's
counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of
Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant
barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of
supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
the nagging idea that if people like them had been
posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to
hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our
arms while he was given the needle and having to
hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a
dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that
people that hide behind fake names are more
honest than people that use their real names.

Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have
studied and lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see
kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really
stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and
Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because
you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea,
and I don't really care.

And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward
and actually admit to buying and having success
with his little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day
and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use
and testing. You would never believe the results, so
you'll never know.

Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
is sure to be coming to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and
Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get
what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says,
"poor Rollei.".......right.

Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

IMO, you're making all of them, plus adding few new ones.

Oh? Such as? Can you be more specific about what
exactly are the mistakes that *I* am making?

"misty"
wrote in message

...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
who ignored your advice.

I did it because of how you write/wrote.
I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have
any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
home.

Up until I started using it my main concern
had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence...well,
then my concern became how to keep
them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming
embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in
the world now g A Wits End Trained dog,
one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D

"misty"
wrote in message


We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this
Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have
one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru
the fence, not want to come back in the yard
and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to
learn how to train my dog. She is now
border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she
no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how
much I hate the e-fence and its collars.

If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog. I will never
rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.

The price was too high:-(
~misty

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

As I've said to you before, go down to your local shelter and test your
so-called "new idea" on many, many dogs, dogs of all sizes, shapes,
temperaments, and on all kinds of behaviorial problems.

Who is the dog expert here, Jack, I or you?

Who is the one responsible for the lives of "many, many dogs etc."?

I tried Jerry's method on my own two dogs. It worked. I came here and
said so, just as many others did before me. You're skeptical about our
results? Fine. Do the experiment yourself. Or at least demonstrate why
it wouldn't work, in what specific instances. CAN you do that, or it's
too big a job for you?

It's extremely irresponsible of you, IMO, to expect others
to test your/Jerry's "new idea" on their own dogs without
first establishing some credibility for it.

The idea isn't mine - it's Jerry's. I just added my modest data,
obtained on my two dogs, to the numerous cases in which the method
worked, as reported by Jerry and by those who applied Jerry's method.
Your dismissing of both a theory that you do not understand and of the
results of so many various people without bringing even the shadow of a

proof to support your position is ignorant at best and dishonest at
worst.

And to do that, you really need to push yourself away from your keyboard
long enough to actually go TRAIN SOME DOGS, a LOT OF DOGS, using this
"new idea." And then you're going to have to convince people that your
"new idea" produces better results than their own, more or less well-
established, "ideas" do.

HOWEDY tommy,

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message ...

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 06:31:43 =ED=8D=8D (UTC),



(Melanie L Chang) wrote:
[]
I'd been warned that prior owners reported
marking in the house so since the beginning
I've treated him as if he is not housebroken -

HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.

- supervised, crated if I can't watch him so
he has no opportunity for accidents,

IOW she's DISAVAILED him of TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES.

Locking a dog in a box TEACHES IT that the box
is his HOWES and your HOWES is his terrortory
to FHOWEL.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

praise and treats EVERY time he goes outside.

That's sheer idiocy. IN FACT, rewarding behaviors
with treats often TEACHES the dog to DO undesirable
behaviors to get you to give up another TRAININ TREAT.

But what do you do when he marks?

She's NICELY told him "DON'T YOU DARE!"

Exactly.

Dogs **** their HOWESES on accHOWENT
of they're EITHER SICK ANXXXIHOWES or
UNHAPPY.

Since allowing him to continue doing this

She AIN'T allHOWED him to CONtinue DOIN it, tommy.

is counter-productive

EVERY THING melanie has done to "TRAIN"
her dogs has been C-HOWENTER productive
as EVIDENCED BY her RESULTS after three
years IN TREATMENT at UofPA Small Animal
Behavior Clinic with her FEAR AGGRESSIVE
MAN SHY dog Solo:

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

I have no choice but to keep in crated almost
all the time, which I don't feel good about.

WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
HUMAN BEHAVIOR LABORATORY. Seems
melanie is lookin for PERMISSION to HURT
her dog someMOORE.

Not necessarily.

Right. She could tether Skeeter to her leather
garter belt and jerk and choke IT when IT pisses.

You need him to keep marking (for at least a few
more times) so that you can CORRECT him for it.

You mean HURT and INTIMIDATE IT someMOORE, tommy.

As you rightly stated, this is "separate
from housebreaking."

RIGHT. It's ANXXXIHOWESNESS. It's an OCD, tommy.

It's a dominance issue.

THAT'S INSANE.

But I also feel angry and frustrated.

THAT'S a DOMINANCE ISSUE.

As do most people in your situation,

THAT'S HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE
DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, tommy.

REMEMBER?

and that's why so many dogs like
Skeeter end up on Death Row.

You mean like the DEAD DOGS you've been
HEELPFUL in MURDERING RIGHT HERE,
tommy?

You koehler fans love to jump on the FEAR
of DEATH bandwagon to JUSTIFY HURTING
DOGS.

Till you get AFRAID to HURT them someMOORE.

Then you MURDER them and try to blame
the breed or the breeder or the handler for
NOT HURTING the dog ENOUGH.

You've let this dominant behavior

You mean Skeeter's DOMINANCE PISSIN, tommy?

THAT'S INSANE.

go on now for (as well the previous owners),
what, 5-6 months?

THAT'S IRRELEVENT. DOMINANCE PISSIN
is CAUSED by FEAR INSECURITY and MISTRUST.

That's going to make it harder to modify,

Yeah.

but, yes, it can be done.

But not by any method you know of, tommy.
OtherWIZE you wouldn't HURT and INTIMIDATE
dogs when you RUN HOWETA ideas and information.

But it's up to you, Mel. Not Skeeter.

You got any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of
DOMINANCE PISSIN, tommy?

Is there anything else I can try,

MIGHT try Voo Doo. It ALWAYS works
for The Amazing Puppy Wizard {) : ~ )

other than treating Skeeter like he
isn't housebroken, forever?
[]

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

I have never seen you mention any kind of
OBEDIENCE TRAINING for Skeeter, but
that might have been just an innocent omission.

Yeah, you can be SHORE melanie has been
TRAINING Skeeter. IN FACT, she MENTIONED
just the other day she couldn't take Skeeter into
HOWES Depot on accHOWENT of she needed
ALL her attention on Solo to prevent IT from attackin
someWON during his SOCIALIZATION after three
years on ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS at UofPA.

I hope you're not falling into the trap that
many owners of small dogs fall into, by
not thinking that your little guy needs any
OBEDIENCE TRAINING?

You mean jerking and choking on leash.

Because he does!

EVERY WON NEEDS JERKING and CHOKING ON LEASH.

If you haven't started yet, I'd get started
with it TODAY, and make sure that you
devote at least 20 minutes a day to it for
the next couple of months.

You mean to CURE a BEHAVIOR problem
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING IN OBEDIENCE
TRAINING that can be EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply NOT DOIN
what melanie has been doin to TRAIN her dogs.

Keep him confined to the crate

LIKE THAT, for EXXXAMPLE.

when you can't observe him, etc.(just
like you would do during routine housebreaking),

HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE.

but the next time he *marks* inside, you
*must* CORRECT him for it.

You mean HURT him, tommy.

It's *your* house, not his.

No. His CRATE is HIS HOWES, tommy.
melanie's HOWES is his TERRORTORY
to FHOWEL.

One suggestion:
The precise moment he starts to mark again,
reach down and grab his collar (yes, this is
known as a "Come to Jesus" session),

Jesus was a DOG LOVER like you, tommy?

rough him up a bit by shaking the collar back and forth,

JUST LIKE HOWE Jesus woulda done, eh tommy?

make some noise, e.g., say "NO! Not in MY house,

Dogs don't TALK ENGLISH, tommy. You COULD
grunt and squeal like a pig and it'd be MOORE
meaningful. OR you could LIMIT your WORDS
and do it like HOWE your pal professor SCRUFF
SHAKE teaches us to do:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

you little ****!!!"

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

Dogs don't LIKE to be CUSSED, tommy.

And then IMMEDIATELY slap a
leash on him and take him outside for a walk.

For WHAT, tommy, as a REWARD for MARKING?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

THAT'S INSANE!

Marking got NUTHING to do with NEEDING
to RELIEVE themselves, tommy.

Really put him through his paces, being as
*assertive* as you can.

Oh! You mean take the dog HOWET to
JERK and CHOKE IT someMOOER, eh tommy?

A WIZE IDEA to relieve the dog's ANXXXIHOWESNESS.

Return him to the scene of the crime
and then REPEAT the above.

You mean JERK and CHOKE IT someMOORE, tommy.

Yes.

Of curse. That'll make the dog LOVE workin
on his OBEDIENCE and will RELAX the dog.

All of it, including the walk.

As a REWARD? Or to DISTRACT
him from his BAD BEHAVIOR, tommy?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Put him back in his crate,

You mean HIS HOWES, tommy.

ignore him for a while,

To make the dog FEEL HAPPY.

clean up the mess, etc.

Cleanlieness is next to G-Dlieness.
Don't forget the ENZYME cleaner
to HIDE the marks from the dog...

Just keep at it for a few weeks -

Kinda like HOWE she's DONE for five months.

- RELIGIOUSLY -

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Your Jesus TEACHES a pretty WEIRD RELIGION
of HURTING INTIMDIATING and MURDERING
innocent DUMB ANIMALS, eh tommy?

- and you should see signs of improvement pretty quickly.

Yeah?

You mean INSTEAD of NEARLY INSTANTLY
if you stop HURTING and INTIMDIATING and
LOCKING IT in a box and takin IT HOWET every
two HOWERS.

You SEZ:

"If you haven't started yet, I'd get started
with it TODAY, and make sure that you
devote at least 20 minutes a day to it for
the next couple of months."

Let me know how it goes.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

Like laura arlov's DEAD DOG Chewie and kwbrown's
DEAD DOG Teena and steve walker's DEAD DOG
Sampson and purple pony's DEAD DOG Raggdoll
and tara o. aka tee's DEAD DOG Summer and
Robert Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz?

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail

AND THIS:

HOWEDY tommy,

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message ...

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:46:57 GMT, "BigB"

wrote:

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in
message
.. .
It's a dominance issue.
While I don't disagree that it COULD
be a dominance issue

Yeah. Dominance peeing is insidiHOWES.

i have also seen this behavior related to an anxiety issue.

Naaah?

Yup.

Yeah?

Anxiety over his place in the pack.

Oh, of curse. The dog wants to do the shoppin an bankin.

The Doggie World abhors a leadership vacuum.

Yeah. That's HOWE COME they VOTE.

IMO, Mel has more dogs on her hands
than she can probably provide sufficient
attention, training, and leadership to.

THAT'S INSANE!

I hope I'm wrong.

You always are, tommy. REMEMBER?

She's got three little dogs.

If anxiety is the issue,

It's EITHER THAT or the dog is SICK.

then treating as you describe could increase anxiety.

You mean SCRUFF SHAKING and CHOKING IT on leash.

IMO, the guy is simply looking for some leadership from Mel.

Yeah. The dog WANTS HER TO CHOKE HIM
like she does Solo to make him calm and friendly.

Without it,

You mean relentless choking for dominance peeing.

he's perfectly willing to assume it by claiming
things for himself.

Is THAT HOWE COME the dog PISSES on YOUR STUFF?

Especially "new" things.

That so?

Not to mention that there's another male
dog in the household.

But IT has been sexually MUTILATED like this WON.

Besides, sex doesn't matter or suja and culprit's
OPPOSITE SEX dogs wouldn't attack each other.

WOULD THEY.

UNLESS THEY WAS ABUSED.

It is very important to discover what the
underlying motivation is.

FEAR OF BEING CHOKED AND CRATED USUALLY DOES IT.

This little guy's apparently been marking
for a long, long time (maybe because
everyone's been, IMO, far too concerned
with what the "underlying motivation" is,
i.e.,

FEAR.

a kind of paralysis of analysis).

Yeah. On accHOWENT of NUTHIN melanie
has done has worked for three years under
the guidance of UofPA small animal behavior
clinic.

There's probably no way to ever know for
sure what this little guy's "underlying motivation"
is/was.

It's EITHER the dog wants to take over
the bankin or the shoppin. Other than that
there's no other leadership roles in the HOWES.

And it's now become a habit.

No. The dog is being driven INSANE
by a dog abusing psychopath.

But by correcting this ugly behavior

UGLY, tommy? Is pissin as ugly as gettin beat by a
drunken lying punk thug coward mental case?

when it occurs, and at the same time,
providing the leadership *every* dog is
looking for (e.g.,

CHOKING IT, tommy?

through OBEDIENCE TRAINING, etc.)

You mean a come to Jesus meetin, eh tommy?

will almost certainly lead to a more
relaxed, contented little dog.

INDEEDY!

Anyway, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Yeah. But you're a lying anonymHOWES dog abusing
punk thug coward and active long term incurable mental
case. OTHER WIZE you wouldn't be an anonymHOWES
lying dog abusing punk thug coward and you'd post the
winning show trial hisorys of your PRHOWEDLY
EXXXHIBITED FIELD DOG CHUMPIONS, like any
other RESPECTABLE BREEDER of FIELD DOGS
for forty years, eh tommy sorenson?

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAHAA!!!

Hey tommy? Remember that time you got drunk
and forgot to set your screen identity to DOGMAN
and it came through as tommy sorenson?

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAA!!!

REMEMBER HOWE you DENIED IT, tommy?

PS: I will also never understand why some
folks think it's okay to squirt a dog in the face
with, say, a vinegar/water solution(!),

Who'd do sumpthin AWFUL like THAT, tommy?

but seem to go bonkers at the thought of
a little tug on a dog's collar,

You mean a little CHOKING, tommy?

etc.

And shocking, tommy?

And beatin your dog with a heavy man's leather
belt like HOWE it SEZ in your koehler book, tommy?

Hey tommy? Where does a lying dog abusing punk
thug coward find a heavy MAN'S leather belt? Does
koehler think REAL MEN BEAT DOGS with belts like
HOWE it SEZ in his book you're always recommending?

Nope, I probably never will.

Oh, bye the bye tommy, when your memory
comes back you'll REMEMBER you can't
post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE
on accHOWENT of you're a lying dog abusing
mental case and coward.

REMEMBER tommy?

---------------------------------

Good luck with that!

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK. "Luck is for SUCKERS,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY {); ~ )

But just talking the talk ain't gonna cut it.

Go to the link you yourself provided and read again.

Everything.

Starting from the beginning.

Lucy

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. }TPW ; ~ )

Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
=20
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {}; ~ )

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:36:01 -0400, DaveR
wrote:

This morning we took the dog out, he peed but didn't seem like he
needed to go further because he ran back inside.

When he was left alone for a few minutes he pooped in the house, in
multiple places in the same room, a same location where he has done
this before.

Since we had just taken him out, is it a reasonable conclusion that he
did this solely to get our attention?

No. I think the most reasonable conclusion is that he needed to poop
but not so immediately that he did it before coming in. When the urge
his stronger a few minutes later, he was inside instead of out, so he
picked his favorite indoor spot. Clean that spot with enzymatic
cleaner and keep it blocked off (door shut or baby gate) if at all
possible. Watch the dog like a hawk when inside for any signs that he
needs to go so you can take him out before he can get the deed done.
Praise him to the skies for doing it outside. Assume that he must pee
and poop in the morning and if he does one without the other, either
don't let him in or supervise him and keep taking him back out until
both have been accomplished. I actually think it is great to have
dogs who want to be back inside as it is a motivator. The dog gets to
go inside only after he's all done with business. In the morning,
that means a pee and a poop. If he heads for the door before doing
both (and the door is closed so he can't get in if he does or else the
dog is on leash), I tell the dog that he has to go potty. Once he is
completely done, he gets praised as we run for the door and go in to
play. It's amazing how quickly they get the idea that if they want to
go in, they should at least make a good effort at going. Several of
the dogs I have had would squat even if nothing came out to show that
they were doing their best and should be allowed to go in. I was
always out there until they were a hundred percent trained so that I
knew whether they had actually gone or not and could schedule the next
potty break and supervision level accordingly.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Thank you for the constructive advice, though it was tough to weed out
of the rest of your message.

I think it is humorous that you treat the people in this forum in the
exact opposite manner than you suggest we treat dogs.

With a dog like yours spend EXXXTRA time doing
the Hot & Cold EXXXORCISE and Family Leadership
EXXXORCISE and get into the work in Part 2 as
soon as you understand the techniques. It's not
much effort, not even as hard as readin WON of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's CRAZY Posts {); ~ )

Trust me I have been trying hard to do the exercises. The dog does not
cooperate. First, he pulls me in the direction he wants to go when I
stand still. He does not "move forward and back, around and in front
of me." He does not move toward me, or away. He turns to look at me
and I praise him lavishly but he doesn't react. He'll stop pulling
after awhile but then he'll just sit down. The dog is not settled and
paying attention to me. He is sitting wondering why we aren't moving
so he can go on his walk. I stood for 15 minutes. He is not following
the rules!

I know you're not supposed to have tension on the leash, but what am I
supposed to do when HE is the source of the tension? I try the
hot-cold exercise periodically as we are walking with the same
results. I try to keep him close to me and avoid tension as much as
possible. Inevitably, he pulls and pulls, choking himself, wanting to
go where he wants to go.

You say the dog is anxious and afraid of me but he certainly doesn't
seem that way. He is generally very affectionate and seeks contact
with us. He has his moments where he attacks his toys agressively and
nips at us, but isn't this just being a playful pup?

If I can't get him to cooperate in the hot-cold exercise, where am I
supposed to go next?

Still frustrated...

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:25:26 -0400, DaveR
, clicked their heels and said:


If I can't get him to cooperate in the hot-cold exercise, where am I
supposed to go next?

To an actual trainer - in person - and sane.



--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:25:26 -0400 DaveR whittled these words:

Trust me I have been trying hard to do the exercises. The dog does not
cooperate. First, he pulls me in the direction he wants to go when I
stand still. He does not "move forward and back, around and in front
of me." He does not move toward me, or away. He turns to look at me
and I praise him lavishly but he doesn't react. He'll stop pulling
after awhile but then he'll just sit down. The dog is not settled and
paying attention to me. He is sitting wondering why we aren't moving
so he can go on his walk. I stood for 15 minutes. He is not following
the rules!

I haven't read Jerry's stuff in years but I quit when I saw his entire
view of the relationship is adversarial. Talk of the dog having "secret
plans" and jerking your chain. He describes training as psychological
warfare which might not be so inaccuate but it is unbalanced by any sign
of affection or warm regard. I didn't care for the disrespectful way
he refers to other dogs, and the tone in which he stated that he doesn't
"touch" other people's dogs.


I don't remotely claim "perfection" in training. But in my relationship
building and in the end results I'm delighted with how my Tsuki developed.

You might get something useful from seeing the journal on him.
http://dogplay.com/MyDogs/puppyreport.html

And mull over the fact that most of us who have been to obedience classes
go back when we have new dogs or puppies. There is always something new
to be learned and always an advantage in an outside eye.

In communicating with your dog two things are critical (1) your awareness
of what your body is telling the dog and (2) your timing in relationship
to what you do or do not want the dog to do. Making you conscious of your
body language really requires someone pointing it out to you at the time
you are doing it. And making your timing appropriate also requires
feedback at the time it is occurring

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/dogplayshop.htm