From:

How do sport breeders justify that price?

Yanno, I think people just catch 'the fever', both for the sport and
breeds that excel at it, and it blossoms from there. And there's enough
people that want flash and chrome hangs head that they'll pay it for
sport bred dogs. Agility also seems to attract more people with money
than obedience does. Is there much money around sheepdog trials?

What exactly are you getting for all that money?

The name, in this case, since some have done well at USDAA and {I
think!} AKC Nationals. I think it's the same thought process as "I need
a BC to win", taken a little further. There's a woman in our area that
has done well with a couple of border collies off a farm in Idaho, and
now there's several people that have dogs from the same farm.

And their foundation stock are often nondistinguished, to say the
least.

I know zipzilchnada about BC bloodlines. I read McCaig's books, does
that count?

Have you ever lurked on the Lockeye list?

No, I'm on the CP list {no mail}, and agileBC, though I may be tossed
off the former after this! I know Karen has at least one of Michelle's
dogs for breeding stock, a bitch.

But selling puppy after puppy to sport homes.

'Lockeye' is pretty much a dirty word around here, at least with the
agility people I talk with regarding BC's.

My understanding is that on the west coast (not there yet -- not moving
until end of July) it is more common to get rescue dogs that are partly
trained or have good instinct.

I know one of the people I work with {take that phrase loosely, please,
I say I have room, she meets me with a dog, and sometimes we trade dogs
when the other person is the more appropriate foster} says she gets in
lots of nice working dogs, and makes definite distinctions between those
she feels have trial potential, and the working farm dogs. She said she
felt that Jenna would work a farm fine, but wouldn't make a trial dog
without a lot of work, and probably wouldn't go far even after the work
was put into her. I still may take her for a few lessons, just for
grins. I'm enjoying this new path.

In the northeast it seems more common to end up with Amish mill dogs

Are there many BC's in pet stores back east? I have no idea around
here, I don't go into 'pet stores', though the local animal supply
frequently has mixed breed pups 'in stock'. He says he just takes in
'oops' litters to help out customers. I suggested he do so only if they
make arrangements to spay the bitch, and he looked at me like I'd
sprouted another head.

Because "why should they settle for trash dogs when they can buy nice
puppies?" (Yes, someone said that to me once.) "Don't they have a right
to a nice puppy?" "Because rescue dogs all have isssues, don't you
understand?"

Were you still on agileBC when I went off on that woman who said
practically the same thing? One of the many times when I should have
waited an hour or so before I hit 'send'. I'm surprised the Queen
didn't dump me, she removed Kay when she posted her plea for rescue
help.

and I specifically asked for a red bitch.

Now, _that surprises me, as the two main rescue people here have both
told me they shudder when they hear a dog in need is a red bitch. They
said, IIRC, that they'd _never had a normal red bitch come through,
they're all warped. {This is why Sunny is with me} I really _must get
these dogs swabbed, because for two long time, experienced rescue
people to say this, and for you to _want a red bitch, makes me think
there's something genetic going on here in Orygun. Interesting, eh?
I don't have a problem with flash, I even like merles personally, I
just don't agree with breeding for it.

I've always wanted a merle _something, I just love the color. I'm
especially fond of the lighter ones, with lots of white. One came into
rescue just before I spotted Dice, but he'd had a broken leg...
something that made me pass on him. He was stunning.

To me, "breed" implies both common ancestry and selection for common
characteristics such that the offpsring are predictable in traits
essential to breed type.

I think that's pretty much where I'm coming from.

Anyway, I hope we get to compare notes face to face when I get out to
the west coast.

How cool would that be? Maybe Jenna could christen a t-shirt for you.
There's a few sheepdog trials held within a 20 minute drive of my house.

Debbie