(This might go better to alt.usage.english, but I think I prefer to ask you
doggy folks instead.)

This is about color terminology. I got in an argument with somebody about
proper English color names, and English isn't the first language of either
of us. When a dog is colored like a Dobermann, which ones of the following
are proper:

black and tan (ok, I know that this is most common)
black with tan points (I know that this has to be correct too)
black with tan markings
black with tan signs
something else?

She claims that "with signs" has to be correct, as her big dictionary says
so. I say that I've never heard of that term used of animals. I think that
"signs" are more like manmade things (and a kind-of-scary movie), and
"markings" is better word for patches of different color on a coat of an
animal.

Please native English speakers, help us!

Liisa

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 15:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Liisa Sarakontu
wrote:

(This might go better to alt.usage.english, but I think I prefer to ask you
doggy folks instead.)

This is about color terminology. I got in an argument with somebody about
proper English color names, and English isn't the first language of either
of us. When a dog is colored like a Dobermann, which ones of the following
are proper:

black and tan (ok, I know that this is most common)
black with tan points (I know that this has to be correct too)
black with tan markings
black with tan signs
something else?

She claims that "with signs" has to be correct, as her big dictionary says
so. I say that I've never heard of that term used of animals. I think that
"signs" are more like manmade things (and a kind-of-scary movie), and
"markings" is better word for patches of different color on a coat of an
animal.

Please native English speakers, help us!

you are correct. "black with signs" is not a phrase a native English
speaker would *ever* use. "black and tan" is the most common
description i've heard in everyday use. "black with tan points" would
be correct, too. "black with tan markings" would probably be understood
by a Dobe person, but it is a less precise description than the first
two you listed, and isn't exactly correct.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
-- Pablo Picasso

In article ,
Liisa Sarakontu wrote:
She claims that "with signs" has to be correct, as her big dictionary says
so. I say that I've never heard of that term used of animals. I think that
"signs" are more like manmade things (and a kind-of-scary movie), and
"markings" is better word for patches of different color on a coat of an
animal.

"Signs" can be used to refer to either man-made or natural
things, but it's closely related to "signal" and tends to
imply communication, even if the communication is inferred
rather than intentional (for example, clouds and wind can be
signs of an impending storm). It may be the case that
someone, somewhere uses the word "signs" to refer to animal
markings but I've never seen it, myself.

I think dictionaries can often lead people astray,
particularly since they tend to appeal to people who believe
in language prescription (says she, who hates the plural
"emails"). To me, over-reliance on dictionaries is a sign
of lack of fluency. I've always thought your English was
excellent - very idiomatic. But I figure that if someone
can learn Finnish they can learn anything.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Over half of all US Treasury debt is now held by overseas owners

Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
. ..
(This might go better to alt.usage.english, but I think I prefer to ask
you
doggy folks instead.)

This is about color terminology. I got in an argument with somebody about
proper English color names, and English isn't the first language of either
of us. When a dog is colored like a Dobermann, which ones of the following
are proper:

black and tan (ok, I know that this is most common)
black with tan points (I know that this has to be correct too)
black with tan markings
black with tan signs
something else?

She claims that "with signs" has to be correct, as her big dictionary says
so. I say that I've never heard of that term used of animals. I think that
"signs" are more like manmade things (and a kind-of-scary movie), and
"markings" is better word for patches of different color on a coat of an
animal.

Please native English speakers, help us!

I've heard of all descriptions *except* signs. However, American English is
not identical to UK English so its possible UK citizens use "signs"

--
Tara

"Tee" wrote in message
...
I've heard of all descriptions *except* signs. However, American English
is not identical to UK English so its possible UK citizens use "signs"

Doing a quick search of half a dozen UK Doberman clubs shows that the breed
standard in the UK uses the word "markings".

--
Tara

"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote:



She claims that "with signs" has to be correct, as her big dictionary
says so. I say that I've never heard of that term used of animals.

I have *never* heard "signs" used to describe markings on animals, and it's
not even particularly accurate applied to inanimate objects.



I think that
"signs" are more like manmade things (and a kind-of-scary movie), and
"markings" is better word for patches of different color on a coat of an
animal.

You're correct.

black with tan signs
Please native English speakers, help us!

Thank you, dear native speakers :-) So, no "signs" when we are talking
about a dark dog with tan/cream and white coat patches.

Liisa

Liisa Sarakontu wrote in
:

black with tan signs
Please native English speakers, help us!

Thank you, dear native speakers :-) So, no "signs" when we are talking
about a dark dog with tan/cream and white coat patches.

Liisa

The ESS world would refer to tricolour dog as being "black and white with tan
points."

--
Kate
and Storm and Hamish the FCRs

Liisa Sarakontu said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

black with tan signs

This may a translation miscue from "black with tan indications".
Which I've heard.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 11:01:44 -0500, shelly
wrote:

you are correct. "black with signs" is not a phrase a native English
speaker would *ever* use. "black and tan" is the most common
description i've heard in everyday use. "black with tan points" would
be correct, too. "black with tan markings" would probably be understood
by a Dobe person, but it is a less precise description than the first
two you listed, and isn't exactly correct.

I hear markings used more than points, but otherwise agree. But
markings is used a lot around my area for all kinds of things, so it
may be regional. I have never heard anyone call them signs and
usually people just say what two colors they see, like black and tan.
Come to think of it, people have described my GSD as black with brown
"marks" instead of "markings" as well, but it hasn't been common.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay