"Steve Crane" wrote in message
news:zSa0c.5223$Pc.1144@okepread02...
Correct, there are dozens of flavanoids etc. Just published in Jan was some
work done on the quercetin's contained within cranberries. There are quite
a few. While I agreee that the proanthrocyanidins mentioned in your quotes
are active, the quercetins group appears to be a bit more active. I doubt
anyone is prepared to say that just one flavanoid or another is the active
chemical. My intention was to make it relatively simple and focus on one of
the more common effective chemicals.


J Agric Food Chem. 2004 Jan 28;52(2):188-95.
Characterization of flavonols in cranberry (Vaccinium macrocarpon) powder.
Vvedenskaya IO, Rosen RT, Guido JE, Russell DJ, Mills KA, Vorsa N.
Department of Plant Biology and Pathology, Rutgers University, New
Brunswick, New Jersey 08901, USA.
Flavonoids were extracted from cranberry powder with acetone and ethyl
acetate and subsequently fractionated with Sephadex LH-20 column
chromatography. The fraction eluted with a 60% methanol solution was
composed primarily of phenolic constituents with maximum absorbance at 340
nm. A high-performance liquid chromatography procedure was developed, which
resolved 22 distinct peaks with UV/vis and mass spectra corresponding to
flavonol glycoside conjugates. Six new constituents not previously reported
in cranberry or in cranberry products were determined through NMR
spectroscopy to be myricetin-3-beta-xylopyranoside,
quercetin-3-beta-glucoside, quercetin-3-alpha-arabinopyranoside,
3'-methoxyquercetin-3-alpha-xylopyranoside, quercetin-3-O-(6'
'-p-coumaroyl)-beta-galactoside, and quercetin-3-O-(6'
'-benzoyl)-beta-galactoside. Quercetin-3-O-(6'
'-p-coumaroyl)-beta-galactoside and quercetin-3-O-(6'
'-benzoyl)-beta-galactoside represent a new class of cranberry flavonol
compounds with three conjugated components consisting of a flavonol, sugar,
and carboxylic acid (benzoic or hydroxycinnamic acids). This is also the
first report identifying quercetin-3-arabinoside in both furanose and
pyranose forms in cranberry. Elucidation of specific flavonol glycosides in
cranberry is significant since the specificity of the sugar moiety may play
a role in the bioavailability of the flavonol glycosides in vivo.

........Yes I saw that. Read it again. Note that it says that 22 peaks were
noted for flavonol glycosides. They are only reporting the 6 NEWEST that
have never before been noted one of which is not a quercitin compound but
myricetin. This does not mean they are the most important nor do they say
that anywhere in this abstract.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

This discussion is a classic case of why the science that exists
really knows little about a condition, or a cure, and how one has to
weight what exists which what works. Two sides are speaking as if they
are speaking about fact. In reality all they are doing is quoting
various sources of science that all have looked at small pieces of the
puzzle and from that made educated guesses as to answers and results.
The great thing about published science is there are always two sides.
It's rare that you can not find a dissenting argument for any
condition that exists. Basically, pick your belief and you will find
science to back it up.

There are a number of studies that show cranberries reduce ph in
urine. And there are a number of studies that show that their is a
component in cranberries that seem to cause a reaction in the system
which eliminates bacteria. Both are valid hypothesis, but none can say
for sure which is which. In fact it almost becomes an arguement in
eog. While five studies over the years have shown pH is lowered with
the addtion of cranberry, suddenly a group of recearchers find
somethign else and they try to have thier resulkts supercede all teh
sciecnein the past with such phrases as "our works shows that
incection may not", or "this factor may be more important to the
cause". This is where you have to look at the science and then look
at what works and make your own determination as to what is best for
you. Science rarely ever has a definitive answer, by definition it
can't. Rather each piece of published science is a stab at some part
or the puzzle, hence why we can not rely on science alone. I know
that if I give my dogs pure cranberry concentrate now, in an hour I
can actually measure a drop in pH of my animals urine using pH paper.
No guessing their, I simply use pH paper and put it in the stream of
my dogs urine and I get a definitive result. Now as for how long that
pH remains low is another question. As the system returns to its state
before the addition of the cranberry, the pH begins to rise again. But
the question this brings up, is this temporary assault on the pH part
of what makes the condition in the bladder hostile to bacteria?
Obviously this change in pH isn't permanent. And perhaps other factors
are at work, but because bacteria does not like acidic conditions and
the addition of cranberries in the diet makes an acidic condition, it
certainly helps.

When you realize that the bladder passes overabundances of wastes from
food and drink, it's not surprising that cystitis tends to be the
result of a poor diet in pets. The proactive solution is to get your
pet on a better diet with better quality proteins and not by-products,
and the reactive solution is to evaluate what you feed your pet and
make better choices. As far as I can see from hundreds of e-mails
asking me about cystitis, dogs on kibble suffer from this condition
quite a bit.

As for treatment, I would concentrate on using vitamin C as it will
balance the pH of the urine in about 20 minutes time and keep it there
for a while. The ascorbic acid form of Vitamin C will do this and by
itself can eliminate such conditions when they haven't gotten bad.
Remember I said ascorbic and not ascorbate for this condition. The
acorbate version of vitamin C will raise pH causing more problems. For
cystitis in dogs the addition of the following things will cure the
condition in a day or two in most all cases with a link to what they
are, not necessarily the place I would by them.

For a dog that weighs 30+ pounds 1000mgs of ascorbic acid three times
a day. Cranactin(http://www.good-earth.com/solaray-cr...-capsules.html)
as suggested. Tinkle caps
(http://www.crystalstar.com/product.esiml?PID=86) as directed . Also a
homeopathic remedy called Bladder Irritation
(http://www.enkueros.net/371400522011.html), dosage one third the
human dosage. For the remaining 10% of cases such a combination will
not cure, the addition of propolis (http://www.eimi.com/tabs.html).
The reason why I would try this method before antibiotics is that if
your pet has chronic cystitis problems, the addition of of chronic
antibiotic therapy has the possibility of creating bladder cancer in
your pet. If this method fails, only then would I go for an antibiotic
therapy. This method was taught to me by a verterinarian who uses it
exclusively in pets prior to any attempts at antibiotics. He states
his success is nearly 100%.

Of course the second step is to get your dog on a food source that has
a much better quality protein source.

Steve Crane wrote:

I don't think it hurts anything at all, in fact it is certainly beenficial
to add sources of flavanoids and carotenoids to a dogs diet. I wouldn't get
too concerned about an occasional grape. In all the cases I looked at the
dogs that died from ingesting grapes had eaten very large quantities. In
many cases they had gotten into a 1 pound box of raisins. A couple grapes
isn't any reason to get real excited.

Steve

Thanks Steve for your input on this. I have thought similar in regards
to grapes. Actually some of the dog I have heard that had adverse
reactions to grapes were dogs that ate the grapes off the vine. Of
course I would suspect that many of these grapes eaten off the
vine would contain seeds. Seeds in many fruits are poisonous
even to humans. Such as apples for instance. And I believe
cherries?

Gwen