I've had my JR puppy for close to a month now (She's 3 mo), and I want
to say that I believe in Jerry Howe's method for training my dog. I
hate how he makes Webster cry with his way of writing, and the fact he
quotes every damn posts written since the Big Bang in every replies he
does. A lot of you consider their dogs as a part of your family, but I
read so many posts about screaming, choking, shocking, pinching,
beating the living crap out of your dogs that I wonder why some of you
have them at all. Do you raise your kids that way, or you raise them
with kindness to the best of your abilities?

Yes, Jerry's online personnality totally sucks, and he would be better
served by having his Wit's End document speak for itself and reply to
people with the same kind of eloquence he shows in his manual.
Unfortunately he doesn't, and as a result, the majority of people here
tuned him out. If you hate the messenger, don't disregard his message,
and do yourself the favor of downloading his manual and read it at
least once. Your dog deserves it.

Like previously stated, I have a 3 mo Jack Russell, and a lot of people
think these dogs become totally insane when left alone. Mine has the
full run of the house when I'm at work already. Why? Because she did go
totally insane when I left her in her crate, crapping on herself in the
process. It was not fun. I followed Jerry's advice and did the
"Separation Anxiety" method in the manual, and my house has not been
destroyed. Dog happier, house not destroyed? That's all I needed to
know.

If you're wondering, nope, she's not housebroken yet, and I do come
back with her business on the floor. Winter is starting here in
Montreal and she really hates going outside in the cold (sorry Jerry,
it's really not instinctive in her), so I know I will have some
difficulties with the housebreaking process. Do I get frustrated to
have to wash the floor every day? Yeah I do, but I try my best not to
show it to the dog. That's the small price I decided to pay to have
that small furball in my life. I'm confident she'll get the hang of it,
but I know that it's not going to happen with kicking and screaming.

Tune out Jerry if you want if he doesn't make sense to you. But give
his Wit's End manual a good look, because when he wrote it at that
point in his life, he did.

Denis

"Deltones" wrote :
... I
read so many posts about screaming, choking, shocking, pinching,
beating the living crap out of your dogs that I wonder why some of you
have them at all.

Please cite 5 original posts from people here more than 5 years. At a
volume of about 100 or messages a day, every day, surely you can directly
cite a small handful to support your contention, yes?

Do you raise your kids that way, or you raise them
with kindness to the best of your abilities?

Kindness *and* discipline, darling. One without the other is ineffective.

Unfortunately he doesn't, and as a result, the majority of people here
tuned him out.

Well, it's that combined with the knowledge that the information he put in
his manual is derived from other, less obnoxious sources.

Jerry Howe is a ficticious name used by an anomous man who is handy
with the computer. The proof that I wrote The Wits End Dog Training
Manual, is that I work with K95 for the government where it is widely
used.
Dr. Burnadette Opfelia, otherwise known as drgutsydorightdog.

"Deltones" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

A lot of you consider their dogs as a part of your family,
but I read so many posts about screaming, choking,
shocking, pinching, beating the living crap out of your
dogs that I wonder why some of you have them at all.

What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of which you have
read so many. While you're going through them, point out those
which recommend shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
"Deltones" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

A lot of you consider their dogs as a part of your family,
but I read so many posts about screaming, choking,
shocking, pinching, beating the living crap out of your
dogs that I wonder why some of you have them at all.

What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of which you have
read so many. While you're going through them, point out those
which recommend shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


No kidding. I've been here a couple of years now, and sometimes a newbie
shows up who says he screams at his dog and it doesn't help, or that he
whaps his dog with a newspaper for peeing in the house or something, and all
the regulars point out that these methods are counterproductive, cruel, and
just in general a Really Bad Idea. So unless this poster is sorting
carefully for only posts from clueless new people--many of whom do realize
the error of their ways and begin using more effective and less stressful
methods of training, and the rest of whom tend to get snippy and leave
again--I have no idea what he's talking about.
--Katrina

Mary Healey wrote:
"Deltones" wrote :
... I
read so many posts about screaming, choking, shocking, pinching,
beating the living crap out of your dogs that I wonder why some of you
have them at all.

Please cite 5 original posts from people here more than 5 years. At a
volume of about 100 or messages a day, every day, surely you can directly
cite a small handful to support your contention, yes?

Sure, here's one on "Limited" choking, dated Nov 29th 05. Just look at
the "Training Issues with 8 year old (newly acquired) Sheltie" thread
and it didn't involve that much effort to dig out. Oh, but it's
"Limited" choking, not real choking right? Ok, try putting on a pearl
necklace that is perfectly fitted to your neck size when relaxed. Now
breathe. Feeling comfortable? Want me to dig out other examples?

----------
On 29 Nov 2005 18:38:12 -0800, "

wrote:
One problem with him stopping is that the collar he has can slip off if
he wants to stop. Should I get a "choke" collar?


Try a martingale/greyhound collar. It's sort of a 'limited' choke
collar, meaning you can't keep continually tightening the collar down
to nothing. It will tighten down to the width of the neck so the dog
can't pull out of the collar.

Ludwig Smith

----------

Unfortunately he doesn't, and as a result, the majority of people here
tuned him out.

Well, it's that combined with the knowledge that the information he put in
his manual is derived from other, less obnoxious sources.

You're right, his writing on the NG is obnoxious and as far as info
taken from other sources, I couldn't say. If that's the case, well, his
document is still well done and the methods presented make sense and
appeal to me.

Regards,

Denis

On 1 Dec 2005 05:51:33 -0800, "Deltones"
wrote:

Mary Healey wrote:
"Deltones" wrote :
... I
read so many posts about screaming, choking, shocking, pinching,
beating the living crap out of your dogs that I wonder why some of you
have them at all.

Please cite 5 original posts from people here more than 5 years. At a
volume of about 100 or messages a day, every day, surely you can directly
cite a small handful to support your contention, yes?

Sure, here's one on "Limited" choking, dated Nov 29th 05. Just look at
the "Training Issues with 8 year old (newly acquired) Sheltie" thread
and it didn't involve that much effort to dig out. Oh, but it's
"Limited" choking, not real choking right? Ok, try putting on a pearl
necklace that is perfectly fitted to your neck size when relaxed. Now
breathe. Feeling comfortable? Want me to dig out other examples?

Yes. The below example is not an example of choking one's dog. Have
you ever seen a martingale collar? Do you have a clue what they are?
I do greyhound rescue, and the only collars we use are martingales or
sighthound collars. They are not choke collars; they are collars
designed to prevent a dog with a skinny head from backing out of its
collar. Judging from the way some greyhounds and other dogs
occasionally pull on the collars, tightening them around the neck
produces little discomfort.

Try again. I would be particularly interested in posts where regulars
discuss screaming at and beating the living crap out of our dogs.

Mustang Sally

----------
On 29 Nov 2005 18:38:12 -0800, "

wrote:
One problem with him stopping is that the collar he has can slip off if
he wants to stop. Should I get a "choke" collar?


Try a martingale/greyhound collar. It's sort of a 'limited' choke
collar, meaning you can't keep continually tightening the collar down
to nothing. It will tighten down to the width of the neck so the dog
can't pull out of the collar.

Ludwig Smith

----------

Unfortunately he doesn't, and as a result, the majority of people here
tuned him out.

Well, it's that combined with the knowledge that the information he put in
his manual is derived from other, less obnoxious sources.

You're right, his writing on the NG is obnoxious and as far as info
taken from other sources, I couldn't say. If that's the case, well, his
document is still well done and the methods presented make sense and
appeal to me.

Regards,

Denis

On 1 Dec 2005 05:51:33 -0800, "Deltones" ,
clicked their heels and said:


Sure, here's one on "Limited" choking, dated Nov 29th 05. Just look at
the "Training Issues with 8 year old (newly acquired) Sheltie" thread
and it didn't involve that much effort to dig out. Oh, but it's
"Limited" choking, not real choking right? Ok, try putting on a pearl
necklace that is perfectly fitted to your neck size when relaxed. Now
breathe. Feeling comfortable? Want me to dig out other examples?


Many women wear snug fitting necklaces called "chokers". Does that
mean they are choking? Of course not. You're silly.

You're right, his writing on the NG is obnoxious and as far as info
taken from other sources, I couldn't say. If that's the case, well, his
document is still well done and the methods presented make sense and
appeal to me.


well done? what drugs have you been taking? even if the content was
wonderful, the thing is so poorly written that my dogs could do
better.


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

on 2005-12-01 at 08:55 wrote:

They are not choke collars; they are collars designed to
prevent a dog with a skinny head from backing out of its
collar.

and, in fact, martingales can be adjusted so that, when
tightened fully, they are no tighter than a buckle collar.
that defeats the purpose with a Greyhound, but i adjust
harriet's in that manner. i only use the martingale as a
walking collar because it's easy for me to slip it on and off
her. she's got a big head and has never tried to back out of
a collar, so i don't have the same concerns a sighthound owner
would.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/

"shelly" wrote in message:

and, in fact, martingales can be adjusted so that, when
tightened fully, they are no tighter than a buckle collar.

Yup. Pan's built pretty weird for a Dane, and her head is narrower than it
should be. I've continued to use the Martingale that she came with, because
it is easy to just slip it over her head, and I don't ever have to worry
about it coming off. Actually, I bought a harness to use with her, but it
isn't the kind Khan has (that buckles from both sides around his chest), and
requires that the dog step through a loop or two, and I got tired of putting
it on the wrong way.

Suja