On 22 Dec 2005 07:14:41 -0800, "
wrote:


sighthounds & siberians wrote:


What are you paying for Canidae that's top dollar? We sell a 40 lb
bag for $31. That's about a buck more than most brands go for at
PetsMart.

Mustang Sally

I'm paying $34 for a 40lb bag. The only foods I see at my mom-n-pop
store that are more expensive are Eukanuba and Wellness. I don't
remember what Innova costs, since I tried it when I switched from BARF
and it gave Wojo the runs.
Maybe your definition of top dollar is different from mine. shrug

At the stores around here, Innova is more expensive than Canidae.
Canidae sells at Pet Supplies Plus for $36, which is more than we sell
it for. Wellness is at least as much as Innova. Most brands sell at
PetsMart for around $29 to $30 for a 40-pound bag.

$4 a bag doesn't seem to me to be that big a difference, when feeding
the number of dogs most people have. Granted, we pay cost for
Canidae, but even so, it adds up to $200 a amonth. Add Anna, who can
eat only canned food (and due to her megaesophagus, we feed her Nutro
which is a paste consistency, so no discounts there), and our feed
bill is $300 a month, minimum. For the dogs, that is.

Mustang Sally

Steve Crane wrote:
wrote:
One of the things I found out at a CE convention was that certain
companies are doing longer feeding trials and on various breeds of
dogs.

I suspect that the Big Four (Nestle Purina, Mars Royal Canin, Iams, and
Hill's) are all doing feeding trials much longer than the 6 months
period required by AAFCO. Our newest addition to the household is
currently on an 18 month trial, which may very well get extended to
36-60 months - depending upon results.


The veterinarians I spoke to, after I pissed them off, informed me that
at Purina and the other companies that I can't remember, routinely do a
minimum of four years for a feeding trial on maintance foods. There
were also several breeds mentioned, two of them being labs and beagles.

I guess just everyone has different ideas on what they'll feed their
dogs and what makes up their standards for an acceptable food.

Beth





In fact, the veterinarians that worked for those companies got
rightously ticked when the raw feeders (myself amongst them) were
questioning dog food company practices.
That being said, Canidae has been on the market for 8 years, this is
from their rep. When I stack up 8 years against the foods that have
been out for generations of dogs lives, well, I honestly don't know
what to do about the food. If the boys hadn't suddenly gotten itchy on
the canidae I would have never started looking at this whole mess.

Beth

In article .com,
wrote:
I guess just everyone has different ideas on what they'll feed their
dogs and what makes up their standards for an acceptable food.

I pay a lot of attention to content, less attention to
trials, but the bottom line always, always, always is how my
dogs actually do on the food. I'm never sure what to make
of it when Steve and the other moron from Hill's insist that
I should ignore the actual condition of my dogs in favor of
their almost certainly misrepresented journal citations.

It starts with reviewing what's on the bag but by no means
does it end there. Whether or not Canidae does feeding
trials is interesting but not, I think critical. Would they
have noticed a problem with dry coats if they did trials?
Maybe, maybe not - Science Diet is notorious for producing
dry coats and apparently they do feeding trials.

For whatever it's worth, I fed Canidae for a couple of years
and never noticed a problem with dry coats. This was awhile
ago, though.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

on 2005-12-22 at 10:57 wrote:

I pay a lot of attention to content, less attention to
trials, but the bottom line always, always, always is how my
dogs actually do on the food.

it can be a very individual thing. just because one dog (or
cat) does not do as well on a particular food does not
indicate to me that there is anything wrong with the food.
all it means, for (reasonably) sure, is that that animal's
needs aren't being met by that food.

I'm never sure what to make of it when Steve and the other
moron from Hill's insist that I should ignore the actual
condition of my dogs in favor of their almost certainly
misrepresented journal citations.

that's so wrong on so many levels, that it's mind boggling.

Maybe, maybe not - Science Diet is notorious for producing
dry coats and apparently they do feeding trials.

and not just in dog food, either. one of the first things
i've noticed, after a month or so of rory-cat being on Hill's
W/D is that his coat is dry and brittle. it *was* verging on
greasy, so this is a huge change. it makes petting him a
less-than-enjoyable experience.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
I guess just everyone has different ideas on what they'll feed their
dogs and what makes up their standards for an acceptable food.

I pay a lot of attention to content, less attention to
trials, but the bottom line always, always, always is how my
dogs actually do on the food. I'm never sure what to make
of it when Steve and the other moron from Hill's insist that
I should ignore the actual condition of my dogs in favor of
their almost certainly misrepresented journal citations.

How the dogs do on a food is the end factor for me. That is why I'm so
disappointed now in Canidae. I have dogs that haven't had changes that
started a few months ago with dry itchy skin and a dog that I've had to
up his feeding amount. If I hadn't had these problems I would have
never noticed that Canidae doesn't do the feeding trials. I like the
amount of meat meals that the food has and the lack of certain grains.


It starts with reviewing what's on the bag but by no means
does it end there. Whether or not Canidae does feeding
trials is interesting but not, I think critical. Would they
have noticed a problem with dry coats if they did trials?
Maybe, maybe not - Science Diet is notorious for producing
dry coats and apparently they do feeding trials.

My animals have never done well on Science Diet, so it is never a
consideration for me. That being said, Iknow people that have fed SD
for years and their dogs routinely live to be 15 and 16 years old.
Different courses for different horses.



For whatever it's worth, I fed Canidae for a couple of years
and never noticed a problem with dry coats. This was awhile
ago, though.


I've been feeding Canidae for, I'm guessing here, 18-24 months and it
has only been in the last two months that I've noticed the problems. I
suppose it could be from going straight from late summer to winter with
no inbetween this year that has caused the problems, but since winter
doesn't usually cause a coat problem with my dogs I don't know. waa!
And canidae has Trip's picture on their website and a little booklet
that came with the last bag. They don't know it is Trip but I
recognize the picture from when we were last at camp. The whole
picture has been used for somesort of joint supplement ad. I saw that
in a veterinary products cataloge and tore it out, bragged on it to
everyone I could corral and now have it at home.
If you go to the canidae website and look under the regular canidae
food there is the front end picture of a most handsome GSD.

Beth
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

and not just in dog food, either. one of the first things
i've noticed, after a month or so of rory-cat being on Hill's
W/D is that his coat is dry and brittle. it *was* verging on
greasy, so this is a huge change. it makes petting him a
less-than-enjoyable experience.

--
shelly



And how is Rory-cat doing other wise? Does your vet ever use the other
brands of prescription diets? Waybackintheday we had clients that
found the purina foods were better for their animals.

JMHO.

Beth

It starts with reviewing what's on the bag but by no means
does it end there. Whether or not Canidae does feeding
trials is interesting but not, I think critical. Would they
have noticed a problem with dry coats if they did trials?
Maybe, maybe not - Science Diet is notorious for producing
dry coats and apparently they do feeding trials.

For whatever it's worth, I fed Canidae for a couple of years
and never noticed a problem with dry coats. This was awhile
ago, though.

The fact that Beth's dogs have dry coats certainly doesn't mean that
the dry coats are caused by Canidae. Assuming that Canidae is causing
her dogs to have dry coats, that certainly doesn't mean that every
other dog that eats Canidae will have a dry coat. I have 13 dogs of 6
breeds eating Canidae, and none of them has a dry coat, including those
whose breed tends toward dry skin. Although I have gotten complaints
from a couple of customers that their dogs don't seem to want to eat
Canidae anymore, I haven't gotten any complaints of dry skin.



Mustang Sally

In article . com,
wrote:
I have dogs that haven't had changes that
started a few months ago with dry itchy skin and a dog that I've had to
up his feeding amount.

It sounds like the timing coincided with the weather
changing, and the switch to indoor heating can dry out skin
and it takes more energy to stay warm as the temperature
outside drops. Doubt that's actually the issue, though, but
it's just a thought.

And canidae has Trip's picture on their website and a little booklet
that came with the last bag.

Is it the picture of the romping fellow? Handsome! I can
see why they'd choose it to communicate health.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

Melinda Shore wrote:


It starts with reviewing what's on the bag but by no means
does it end there. Whether or not Canidae does feeding
trials is interesting but not, I think critical. Would they
have noticed a problem with dry coats if they did trials?
Maybe, maybe not - Science Diet is notorious for producing
dry coats and apparently they do feeding trials.

What matters is whether or not a company is concerned enough about
nutrition to attempt feeding trials. It seems to be that the makers of
Canidae aren't that terribly concerned about nutrition. They don't
conduct feeding trials and they make an "all life stages" food (a
one-size-fits-all food that meets the higher requirements for a puppy
food but is excessively high in phosphorus, calcium, sodium, magnesium,
etc for adult and senior dogs).

As for your Science Diet comments, you need to update your talking
points and bring them into the 21st Century. Science Diet is NOT
"notorious" for producing dry coats. If you compare the fatty acid
levels in any Science Diet formula, you are bound to see substanially
higher levels than almost any other brand of food.

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
I guess just everyone has different ideas on what they'll feed their
dogs and what makes up their standards for an acceptable food.

I pay a lot of attention to content, less attention to
trials, but the bottom line always, always, always is how my
dogs actually do on the food. I'm never sure what to make
of it when Steve and the other moron from Hill's insist that
I should ignore the actual condition of my dogs in favor of
their almost certainly misrepresented journal citations.

I see that the Christmas season hasn't affected your *cough* "sunny"
disposition any....you're still engaging in name-calling. As most
arrogant people do, you must denigrate and discredit those who
disagree with you.