On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 16:41:27 -0500, Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian"
Morrison wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:33:34 -0600, Jeff Dege
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 07:32:40 +0000, TOTE wrote:

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:41:27 -0600 Jeff Dege whittled these words:

It's a corrections, plain and simple. But it's controllable to a degree
that other aversives are not. The levels used in training seem to be
milder than collar corrections.

If you believe an ecollar can only be used to correct unwanted behavior
(or failure to perform) I suggest you explore further. There is more to
it than that.

I believe that a shock from an e-collar is an aversive. That trainers who
pretend that they can condition their dog to react to a shock as if it
were a reward are lying to their clients or to themselves.

And I suggest that you attend one of Fred Hassen's "No Limitations"
seminars (held in many areas of the country).

http://www.nolimitations.biz/

http://www.fredhassen.com/

Actually watch him take dogs with no prior training of any kind and
have them heeling, sitting, etc. within minutes.

There have always been abusive trainers who could do that. Given
sufficient punishment, nearly any dog will obey in the short term.

Not that I'm claiming that Fred Hassen is such a trainer, but I'd judge on
how his dogs behaved six weeks and six months after beginning his
training, not after just minutes.

--
Law and its instrument, government, are necessary to the peace and safety
of all of us, but all of us, unless we live the lives of mud turtles,
frequently find them arrayed against us. Worse, we are very apt to
discover, facing their sudden inhibition of our desires, that their
reputed impersonality and impartiality are myths - that the government
whose mandates we almost instinctively evade is not the transcendental and
passionless thing it pretends to be, but simply a gang of very ordinary
men, and that the judge who orders us to obey them is another of the
same kind...
- H. L. Mencken