In article ,
Rocky wrote:
Siberian Huskies are one. They have a particularly high
incidence of testing, especially since I suspect they're no
where near as popular a pet dog as Labs, GRs, and GSDs.

Right. The breed used to have a high incidence of HD, but
breeders got religion about doing something about it and the
results have been outstanding.

Sibes own (according to offa.org), the fifth postion in HD, with
an high number of reports. I'm not sure how to interpret the
trend numbers.

Are you looking at raw numbers or at percentages? OFFA
lists the breed as 2% dysplastic and ranked 138, which is
pretty darned good.

So. Can breeders and owners affect the OFA's percentages? I
tend to believe the best and say no - they couldn't and probably
wouldn't.

I think there are a couple of questions, in particular: is
there reason to think that there's a difference between the
population of dogs that are tested and the population of
dogs that are not tested?, and is there reason to think that
there's a difference in testing behavior among breeds? I
think that this may be one of those situations in which if
there's identical testing bias in all breeds it might
effectively be the same as not having testing bias.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

(Melinda Shore) said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I think there are a couple of questions, in particular: is
there reason to think that there's a difference between the
population of dogs that are tested and the population of
dogs that are not tested?

But isn't it a premise of good breeding that records will back
up claims? For example, if breeders only register results from
tests on passing dogs and exclude non-passing dogs from a
database, we learn something about a particular dog, but are
excluded important stuff as it concerns health of the breed.

As an example, I contend that the incidence of Siberian Husky
HD, going by the breed's OFA records, has been reduced by
conscientious breeding over a number of generations. My friend
contends that the OFA numbers and trend data are skewed by
selective reporting of individual results from within the
litters.

, and is there reason to think that
there's a difference in testing behavior among breeds? I
think that this may be one of those situations in which if
there's identical testing bias in all breeds it might
effectively be the same as not having testing bias.

Damn. Those are good points which I should have bought into the
debate.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:
As an example, I contend that the incidence of Siberian Husky
HD, going by the breed's OFA records, has been reduced by
conscientious breeding over a number of generations. My friend
contends that the OFA numbers and trend data are skewed by
selective reporting of individual results from within the
litters.

I know people who test and people who don't test. The
situation is almost certainly different from many/most other
breeds since the people I know who don't claim that they
don't need to because they're sleddogs and if there are hip
problems they'll come out while working. It is the case
that people who run their dogs do tend to have relatively
good eyes for lameness and other physical problems.

The people I know who do test tend only to test dogs that
are considered breeding candidates, although I do know
people who test all their dogs. I guess whether or not this
matters depends on the questions you're trying to answer.

[I'm watching the Iditarod ceremonial start, and Karen
Ramstead just started with two Can.Ch. dogs as her leaders.
She's apparently been passing out fistfuls of Canadian flags
to spectators. The cut-outs in the doors of her dog truck
are the shape of maple leafs. She's going for a purebreed
record for the race, so here's wishing her the best.]
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

(Melinda Shore) said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

I'm watching the Iditarod ceremonial start, and Karen
Ramstead just started with two Can.Ch. dogs as her leaders.

Where are you watching it? Yes, a chair, but I can't find it
listed on any TV channels I get (Starchoice satellite).

Thanks for your other comments. I'd also like to see Robin N's
comments.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:
Where are you watching it? Yes, a chair, but I can't find it
listed on any TV channels I get (Starchoice satellite).

They're trying something new this year, which is to charge
money for something they're calling "Iditarod Insider."
Mainly what that gives you is access to video, including
live video from the circus in Anchorage and from the finish
in Nome. I enjoyed the feed yesterday quite a bit - one of
the commentators was Joe Runyan, a guy who ran the race a
number of times back in the early days, and he really knew
the dogs and many of the mushers. Because of the format of
the ceremonial start and its casual atmosphere, they were
actually able to get short interviews with many/most of the
mushers before they ran down the avenue. Whether or not it
continues to be good remains to be seen.

On the exceedingly cool side, the Can-Am 250 is this weekend
and among other things they have real-time tracking of the
teams on a topo map. I know a bunch of the people up there
and I'm sponsoring one of the purebred teams, and it's
amazing to be able to follow their race without actually
being there.

http://can-am.sjv.net/WebRace/CACFRAME.HTM
Unfortunately the user interface is somewhat less than
intuitive.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

In article ,
Melinda Shore wrote:
They're trying something new this year, which is to charge
money for something they're calling "Iditarod Insider."

Well, crap. That didn't answer your question. The video is
online at iditarod.com.

Also, after the race the Outdoor Life Network in the US is
going to be broadcasting a special on it. I don't know if
OLN Canada will be, but it seems likely.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

(Melinda Shore) said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

http://can-am.sjv.net/WebRace/CACFRAME.HTM
Unfortunately the user interface is somewhat less than
intuitive.

Thanks! I remember that one from last year - you posted the
link just in time for me to watch the whole race topographically
in fast forward and catch the ending in real time.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Rocky wrote:
Thanks! I remember that one from last year - you posted the
link just in time for me to watch the whole race topographically
in fast forward and catch the ending in real time.

It's been kind of a weird morning because the guy I
sponsored wasn't showing up at his checkpoint and he kept
missing his projected arrival times, so there was a bunch of
waiting around wondering "where's Bob?" I still don't know
what happened - maybe he decided to turn the race into a
camping trip. It's pretty warm up there this weekend (temps
around freezing) and that's hard on the Siberians. This is
his first race of that kind of length and the Can-Am is
apparently a really tough race, so he may be running
conservatively. I'm looking forward to finding out why he
made under 5mph to the second checkpoint, 'cause that's
*really* slow.

Karen Ramstead took the red lantern in her first Iditarod
and got a lot of crap from racing-line Siberian people for
it, but she had made a deliberate decision to run really
cautiously, finish with all her dogs, and learn what she
needed to do to run competitively in the future. I thought
that was amazingly sane.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community.

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
"wolfpuppy" said in rec.pets.dogs.health:

Hip dysphasia is [...]

I know what his dysplasia is, I was interested in your reasoning
that it's "generated by inbreeding."

Hip dysphasia is caused by inbreeding, that is, breeding
too close to the blood. Breeding littermates, for example.

I also know what inbreeding is.

This is a condition that affects all breeds across the
board at about 10%.

Where'd this number come from?

I found out this info years ago when I
wanted to educate myself on this condition, for I had been
told for so long that this was a trait associated with
german shepherds primarily.

Many breeds have an unfortunate number of dysplastic dogs, not
just GSDs. Also unfortunate are the mixed breeds which "get"
the same thing.

I've since learned that this is
not so, but is fairly equally distributed among all breeds.

Yup.

In other words, a disreputable breeder, instead of
introducing new stock into his dogs, will cheat and breed
males and females that are too closely related to save a
buck.

Yup.

This is a very good reason for checking out your
breeder very carefully before purchasing.

Of course.

But you haven't addressed my query as to your assertion that hip
dysplasia is *generated* by inbreeding. For example, if I were
to hypothetically take a GSD female, rated OFA Excellent, and
breed her to her litter brother, also rated OFA Excellent, would
I get dysplastic puppies?

My answer is: Maybe. Not: Yes, they're inbred.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Not sure what part of my post you didn't understand. Hip dysphasia is a
result of inbreeding, that is, breeding dogs that are too closely related.
If you want to get into more detail than that, you will have to ask a
geneticist. If you are trying to pin me down by making me say that all
inbred pups will develop this condition, there is no way I could do that.
But if you want to avoid this condition, then I would say that by not
breeding dogs too closely related would be the way to go. To be absolutely
sure, you would want to have the parents hips x-rayed, since x-rays in too
young a dog wouldn't show anything.

Again, this points out the reason one should go to a reputable breeder.

On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 15:54:04 -0500, "wolfpuppy"
wrote:


Not sure what part of my post you didn't understand. Hip dysphasia is a
result of inbreeding, that is, breeding dogs that are too closely related.
If you want to get into more detail than that, you will have to ask a
geneticist. If you are trying to pin me down by making me say that all
inbred pups will develop this condition, there is no way I could do that.
But if you want to avoid this condition, then I would say that by not
breeding dogs too closely related would be the way to go. To be absolutely
sure, you would want to have the parents hips x-rayed, since x-rays in too
young a dog wouldn't show anything.

Please. It's dysplasia. You might have more credibility if you got
the name of the condition correct. And again, breeding dogs that are
closely related doesn't magically produce hip dysplasia.

Again, this points out the reason one should go to a reputable breeder.

Reputable has nothing to do with it. Responsible does.

Mustang Sally