buglady wrote:
"buglady" wrote in message
k.net...
"kate" wrote in message
ups.com...
New vet at least acknowleges Lymes and is familiar with the disease,
although no real cases here in OZ.
...........I think where there's a perception that the disease is not a
problem, people don't look for it. While the following paper addresses US
dogs, where Lyme is prevelant, the number of dogs with arthritis problems
who end up having antibodies to the organism causing Lyme disease is
impressive. My guess is, that if they started to run ELISA tests on dogs
with arthritic problems, they'd start finding it:

J Vet Intern Med. 2005 Sep-Oct;19(5):654-62.
Suppurative, nonseptic polyarthropathy in dogs.
Rondeau MP, Walton RM, Bissett S, Drobatz KJ, Washabau RJ.
Department of Clinical Studies, University of Pennsylvania School of
Veterinary Medicine, Philadelphia, PA 19104, USA.

The goals of this study were to determine the historical, physical
examination, and clinicopathologic findings in dogs with suppurative,
nonseptic polyarthropathy and to identify concurrent disorders associated
with this syndrome. Medical records of 52 dogs with cytologic evidence of
suppurative inflammation in two or more joints were examined
retrospectively. Age of dogs was 4.8 years (median, range: 0.5-12 years).
There was no clear breed or sex predilection, but most were large-breed dogs
(body weight or = 20 kg [44.4 lbs] in 40/52). Body temperature was 103.0
degrees F (39.4 degrees C) (median, range: 100.0-105.9 degrees F), with 29
of 52 dogs having a body temperature or = 103 degrees F (39.4 degrees C).
Lameness was identified in 42 of 52 dogs. Erosive changes were found in only
1 of 37 dogs that had radiography performed. A clear underlying disease
process was not identified in 34 of 52 dogs. Seven dogs had evidence of
infectious or inflammatory processes at extra-articular sites; 4 dogs were
diagnosed with systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE); 2 dogs had
gastrointestinal disease; 2 dogs had been vaccinated within 1 month before
onset of polyarthritis; 1 dog had cancer; 1 dog had polyarthritis and
meningitis; and 1 dog had erosive polyarthritis. Of the 44 dogs tested, 25
had antibodies to Borrelia burgdorferi, detected by an ELISA assay, which
was significantly greater than the general hospital population (P = .007).
Antibodies against Rickettsia rickettsiae and Ehrlichia canis were not
definitively identified in the sera of any dog tested in this study (45 and
44 dogs, respectively). We conclude that an underlying disease process is
not identified in most cases of suppurative polyarthropathy in dogs and that
intestinal disease, neoplasia, and SLE are uncommon causes of polyarthritis.
While seropositivity against the causative agent of Lyme disease was common
and possibly a cause of polyarthritis in some dogs of our study, evidence of
other vector-borne infection was not identified.
PMID: 16231709 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

A few more papers that might be of interest:

J Autoimmun. 2000 Feb;14(1):1-10.
Vaccination and autoimmunity-'vaccinosis': a dangerous liaison?
Shoenfeld Y, Aron-Maor A.
Department of Internal Medicine B, Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer,
Israel.
The question of a connection between vaccination and autoimmune illness
(or phenomena) is surrounded by controversy. A heated debate is going on
regarding the causality between vaccines, such as measles and anti-hepatitis
B virus (HBV), and multiple sclerosis (MS). Brain antibodies as well as
clinical symptoms have been found in patients vaccinated against those
diseases. Other autoimmune illnesses have been associated with vaccinations.
Tetanus toxoid, influenza vaccines, polio vaccine, and others, have been
related to phenomena ranging from autoantibodies production to full-blown
illness (such as rheumatoid arthritis (RA)). Conflicting data exists regardi
ng also the connection between autism and vaccination with measles
vaccine.So far only one controlled study of an experimental animal model has
been published, in which the possible causal relation between vaccines and
autoimmune findings has been examined: in healthy puppies immunized with a
variety of commonly given vaccines, a variety of autoantibodies have been
documented but no frank autoimmune illness was recorded. The findings could
also represent a polyclonal activation (adjuvant reaction). The mechanism
(or mechanisms) of autoimmune reactions following immunization has not yet
been elucidated. One of the possibilities is molecular mimicry; when a
structural similarity exists between some viral antigen (or other component
of the vaccine) and a self-antigen. This similarity may be the trigger to
the autoimmune reaction. Other possible mechanisms are discussed.Even though
the data regarding the relation between vaccination and autoimmune disease
is conflicting, it seems that some autoimmune phenomena are clearly related
to immunization (e.g. Guillain-Barre syndrome).The issue of the risk of
vaccination remains a philosophical one, since to date the advantages of
this policy have not been refuted, while the risk for autoimmune disease has
not been irrevocably proved. We discuss the pros and cons of this issue
(although the temporal relationship (i.e. always 2-3 months following
immunization) is impressive). Copyright 2000 Academic Press.
PMID: 10648110 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Another possibility - lupus:
http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/bi...003+Kearns.pdf

Another possibility is canine rheumatoid arthritis, which I didn't explore
as my dogs are ready to kill me!

Has put him on high dosage doxycycline, and wants to know if any
improvement in 3 days.

........One more thing - if tests were run and they were negative for these
two diseases, this doesn't mean that they don't have them, as they might not
yet be making antibodies. The definitive answer is usually to put the dog
on doxy and watch for response. How is your dog doing today?

Thank you so much for all that info.
I will check it out.
Today he is a tiny better in himself - now been on huigh dosage doxy
for 36 hrs.
Joints still very swollen and hot to touch.
Still lies down all day uinless we lift him up for slow walk across the
road to park. We have hopes for better response tomorrw when the 3 days
are up. The vet seemed to think this would be a turning point if the
respose was going to be good, otherwise seems pred only way to go.
Thanks for your continued info and support.
Cheers,
Kate

buglady
take out the dog before replying