On Wed, 03 May 2006 18:25:30 -0400, Janet B
, clicked their heels and said:


Longe line work. Hands down.

forgot to say - best demonstrated/taught by a competant trainer.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:03:55 GMT, Don S
wrote:

[]
Of course, the law usually requires dogs to be on a leash when being
walked, but once your dog is TRAINED to walk on a loose leash, the
only collar you'll need to take your dog for a walk is a buckled
collar (the one you normally keep your dog's ID, rabies, etc. tags
on).

If neither of you knows how to TRAIN your dog, either an OBEDIENCE
class or a professional TRAINER can show you how.

And your vet can usually point you to a good one.

Good luck!

A little help here, Handsome Jack. We have the same pulling problem
with our Lab/Golden mix - particularly with squirrels or people she
knows along the walk.

That's because you haven't trained her using *distractions* as part of
your training. Has anyone showed you how?

We use a buckle collar (or gentle leader) with fair results.

If you learned how to use a TRAINING collar (choke, prong, etc.),
you'd get the results you're looking for, and you'd get them quickly.

But you first have to learn how to use them correctly.

Nugget
is 2 years old and we have had her in 4 - 8 week group classes and 5
individual dog behaviorist visits since she was 3 months old. We walk
her daily and, admittedly, the more often, the less of a problem we
have.

Probably one of those "purely positive" training programs, I bet?

Why did you need you need the services of a dog behaviorist for a 3
month old puppy?

What behaviors were you trying to modify?

She has pulled the trainer to their knees.

Aah. One of those "purely positive" trainers, I bet.

"Purely positive" trainers are known to spend a lot of time on their
knees, Don.

What techniques do you use that work for you?

Traditional training methods. Leash, training collar, etc.

The greatest part of this board is others willing to share what works
- not just "get thee to a trainer".

You can't learn how to train a dog on the Internet, Don.

Learning traditional training methods, as with the others (clicker
training, for example), requires in-person and hands-on assistance.

Janet just recommended the use of the longe. Well, the longe is part
of traditional training, but I bet you don't know what it is, right?

That's why you need to find yourself a *good* obedience training
class, or a professional trainer, so that someone can show you what a
longe is and how to use it correctly.

And if anyone puffs up his chest and tells you that he uses only
"positive" methods, run like hell. That's how you got yourself into
this mess in the first place.

It just doesn't take 2+ years to train a dog to walk at your side on a
loose leash. Unless, of course, you'r a "positive only" trainer.

Get some help, Don.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

The Reality of Global Warming:
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/we...lobal_warming/

Climate of Fear:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220

Media Hot Air on Global Warming
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=21762

Eco-Imperialism - Green Power. Black death:
http://www.eco-imperialism.com/main.php

Highly Over-Hyped: Greenland's and Antarctica's Impacts on Sea Level
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO...9/N13/EDIT.jsp

Antarctic Ice: The Cold Truth
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=030306H

Climate of Uncertainty:
http://www.aei.org/publications/filt...pub_detail.asp

More Hot Air on Global Warming:
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/4417_0_2_0_C/

The Oregon Project:
http://www.oism.org/pproject/

World Climate Report:
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/

Canada: Sixty scientists call on Harper to revisit the science of global warming!
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...59d605&rfp=dta

On Thu, 04 May 2006 07:11:24 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:03:55 GMT, Don S
wrote:

[]
Of course, the law usually requires dogs to be on a leash when being
walked, but once your dog is TRAINED to walk on a loose leash, the
only collar you'll need to take your dog for a walk is a buckled
collar (the one you normally keep your dog's ID, rabies, etc. tags
on).

If neither of you knows how to TRAIN your dog, either an OBEDIENCE
class or a professional TRAINER can show you how.

And your vet can usually point you to a good one.

Good luck!

A little help here, Handsome Jack. We have the same pulling problem
with our Lab/Golden mix - particularly with squirrels or people she
knows along the walk.

That's because you haven't trained her using *distractions* as part of
your training. Has anyone showed you how?

We use a buckle collar (or gentle leader) with fair results.

If you learned how to use a TRAINING collar (choke, prong, etc.),
you'd get the results you're looking for, and you'd get them quickly.

But you first have to learn how to use them correctly.

Nugget
is 2 years old and we have had her in 4 - 8 week group classes and 5
individual dog behaviorist visits since she was 3 months old. We walk
her daily and, admittedly, the more often, the less of a problem we
have.

Probably one of those "purely positive" training programs, I bet?

Why did you need you need the services of a dog behaviorist for a 3
month old puppy?

What behaviors were you trying to modify?

She has pulled the trainer to their knees.

Aah. One of those "purely positive" trainers, I bet.

"Purely positive" trainers are known to spend a lot of time on their
knees, Don.

What techniques do you use that work for you?

Traditional training methods. Leash, training collar, etc.

The greatest part of this board is others willing to share what works
- not just "get thee to a trainer".

You can't learn how to train a dog on the Internet, Don.

Learning traditional training methods, as with the others (clicker
training, for example), requires in-person and hands-on assistance.

Janet just recommended the use of the longe. Well, the longe is part
of traditional training, but I bet you don't know what it is, right?

That's why you need to find yourself a *good* obedience training
class, or a professional trainer, so that someone can show you what a
longe is and how to use it correctly.

And if anyone puffs up his chest and tells you that he uses only
"positive" methods, run like hell. That's how you got yourself into
this mess in the first place.

It just doesn't take 2+ years to train a dog to walk at your side on a
loose leash. Unless, of course, you'r a "positive only" trainer.

Get some help, Don.

Thanks for the input. You hit the nail on the head with positive
training. We used the behaviorist to teach us from the start how to
raise and train a pup (neither of us had owned a dog for decades).

I don't expect to learn how to train a dog on the internet, but I do
expect to find the resources necessary to do so.

And you are right, I've never heard of the longe, but you can bet I'll
learn about it on the internet & find someone locally who can help.
If you know anyone you'd recommend in Dallas, TX, I'd appreciate it.

I've been afraid of the choke and pinch collars. When she pulls, it
is so hard and quick, I think she would do damage to herself.

The method of distraction training we've used is to walk her in pet
stores next to us. Other dogs are quite an attraction to her, but if
she is in a cooperative mood, she does well.

Thanks,

Don S

On Thu, 04 May 2006 16:25:34 GMT, Don S
wrote:

[]
That's why you need to find yourself a *good* obedience training
class, or a professional trainer, so that someone can show you what a
longe is and how to use it correctly.

And if anyone puffs up his chest and tells you that he uses only
"positive" methods, run like hell. That's how you got yourself into
this mess in the first place.

It just doesn't take 2+ years to train a dog to walk at your side on a
loose leash. Unless, of course, you're a "positive only" trainer.

Get some help, Don.

Thanks for the input. You hit the nail on the head with positive
training. We used the behaviorist to teach us from the start how to
raise and train a pup (neither of us had owned a dog for decades).

Sounds like it didn't work very well, or you didn't put in enough time
to make it work.

Your dog's misbehavior needs to be CORRECTED. The longer you wait to
correct it (especially if its self-rewarding), the worse it will get.

I don't expect to learn how to train a dog on the internet, but I do
expect to find the resources necessary to do so.

Your vet can probably aim you in the right direction. So can the
folks at a local rescue agency. Or even your local humane society.

But, again, you'll be better served at this point by staying away from
trainers who claim to use *only* "positive" methods.

And you are right, I've never heard of the longe, but you can bet I'll
learn about it on the internet & find someone locally who can help.
If you know anyone you'd recommend in Dallas, TX, I'd appreciate it.

The longe is simply a long line, usually around 30'. But you'll need
someone to show you how to use one correctly.

There are many good trainers in the Dallas area, and your vet should
be able to aim you in the right direction. Or a local Lab club(a
retriever/hunting/gundog club is best). Or contact a local rescue
agency, or even your local humane society.

I've been afraid of the choke and pinch collars. When she pulls, it
is so hard and quick, I think she would do damage to herself.

She can, if you don't know how to use it. She can also hurt herself
by pulling hard on a simple buckled collar all her life.

And she can certainly get hurt badly (or worse) by, say, a Fed-Ex
truck, if you can't get her to come when called, etc.

IMO, the idea is to get them trained ASAP, so that they can be taken
anywhere and everywhere in total safety.

It's also for their own good, too, because people even stop walking
their dogs altogether if they can't handle them, or are embarrassed by
their shenanigans.

And by the time a dog really starts to feel his oats, so to speak,
(usually between 18-24 months of age), it's paramount that he
*already* be well-trained.

You're probably seeing some of that right now.

The method of distraction training we've used is to walk her in pet
stores next to us. Other dogs are quite an attraction to her, but if
she is in a cooperative mood, she does well.

That may be too much too soon, Don.

You have to introduce distractions slowly and gradually. And you have
to be in a position (and location) where you can correct her properly
whenever the need arises -- otherwise you'll just end up making the
situation even worse, which is probably what you've done.

All of the problems you mentioned can be eliminated with some good
OBEDIENCE TRAINING, and it shouldn't take very long, either --
provided you get some competent help to get you started in the right
direction.

Bad habits have already formed, and that makes it more difficult, and
takes more time.

"An once of prevention is worth a ton of cure."

You need to get started -- ASAP.

Good luck!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

The Reality of Global Warming:
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/we...lobal_warming/

Climate of Fear:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008220

Media Hot Air on Global Warming
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=21762

Eco-Imperialism - Green Power. Black death:
http://www.eco-imperialism.com/main.php

Highly Over-Hyped: Greenland's and Antarctica's Impacts on Sea Level
http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO...9/N13/EDIT.jsp

Antarctic Ice: The Cold Truth
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=030306H

Climate of Uncertainty:
http://www.aei.org/publications/filt...pub_detail.asp

More Hot Air on Global Warming:
http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/4417_0_2_0_C/

The Oregon Project:
http://www.oism.org/pproject/

World Climate Report:
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/

Canada: Sixty scientists call on Harper to revisit the science of global warming!
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/f...59d605&rfp=dta

wrote in message
ups.com...
hello
pulling on the lead is very easy to help. stop walking, pull back
quick but gently and JUST ENOUGH to get the leash slack again, you are
Not correcting him when you do this.

Um, yes you are.

What you are describing is, in fact, the vast majority of corrections that a
dog will ever get on lead for walking.

as soon as the leash is slack
praise, praise, praise! keep doing it, and you'll see it helps.

Funny, that's how I do it as well.

And yet, Jarjar started calling me abusive years ago.

Of course, that was after I challenged some of his ways of dealing with
people. Before that, he thought I was the bees knees.

Oh wait, I forgot....it was also after I mentioened that I knew his machine
didn't work.

But its clear that you only want to believe Jerry's version of why people
here aren't supportive of "his" methods.

Tara

have you read what i have been through with my dog starr? that is why i
trust jerry howe. i wonder if you will read it before you reply to
me........
crystal

In article . com,
wrote:
pulling on the lead is very easy to help. stop walking, pull back
quick but gently and JUST ENOUGH to get the leash slack again, you are
Not correcting him when you do this.

Of course you are.

as soon as the leash is slack
praise, praise, praise! keep doing it, and you'll see it helps.

It really depends on the dog. This is one area (of many) in
which it pays off big time to have more than one approach to
solving the problem.

healing will
also help with this too, and everything else!

Indeed. Healing is *ALWAYS* a good thing.

the dog's problem with showing aggression needs to be handled with
love. he is feeling insecure

It depends on the dog. This Johnny One-Note thing is deeply
uncool.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

wrote in message
ups.com...
have you read what i have been through with my dog starr? that is why i
trust jerry howe. i wonder if you will read it before you reply to
me........

Just as I wonder if you read what I wrote about Jerry's criteria for "abuse"
(i.e. nothing more than whether or not someone is willing to stroke his
ego....nothing whatsoever to do with their method).

I don't care why you trust Jerry. I don't even care whether or not you do
(if you do, that's fine). However, you implicitly aid him in his abuse of
others....and I figured I'd point out that just because you *say* that a
leash correction isn't a "correction" doesn't mean that it isn't. It is,
whether you like that fact or not, doesn't change that fact. In other words,
all that "jerking and pulling" that Jerry accuses others of is the same crap
in his "manual" being referred to by you.

And yeah, people end up resenting being lied about and accused of abuse.
Wouldn't you?

Tara

Your dog is what I like to call a working dog, a working dog is
intelligent,loyal and full of energy.It seems to me that your dog is
showing signs of bordom from simply not having enough to do. You must
provide your dog with stimulation such as playing catch, running in the
park, ect..if you leave your dog alone, inside an apartment for long
periods of time, they can become very destructive, which is a form of
acting out..bottom line is they miss you when you are away and it is
extremely hard for high energy dogs such as yours to just lie still and
watch tv. If you would like to learn more about how to correct your
dogs behavior send me an email to and I
will provide you with some strategies that I have developed over the 30
years I have been training Guard Dogs.

Harley Harrington

" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Assuming you are using a flat collar, when the dog pulls
stop walking and pull back just enough to quickly get a
slack lead to release the tension on the dogs neck, praise
him when the tension is gone.

Yes.

As long as he feels the
tension he is more likely to continue pulling, if you pull
on him and correct him he is more likely to keep pulling.

Yes. Except for the correcting part. Why would he be more
likely to continue pulling after a correction? This is an
honest question. Plus, do you know what a correction is in the
context of behaviour?

He is opposing your authority because of how you are
“bossing” him around, so to speak,

No.

he needs you to take the
lead and teach him to look to you but WITHOUT showing signs
of aggression on your part.

I agree with the general concept of the handler not showing
aggression.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.