I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was dreaming or
seizing.

So, I thought I'd ask those who might have more first hand
experience............... how do you know if your dog is dreaming
("chasing rabbits" - toes twitching, lips twitching, legs twitching,
ocassional eyes rolling back to show the whites, but seeming to be fast
asleep - in perhaps REM sleep) or seizing?

In this case it never happens when the dog is awake, but quite often when
she sleeps - (both during the day and at night) - sometimes more intense
than others, but there is usually some toe twitching during every nap/night.

Thanks in advance........ looking forward to your opinions.

Sue and Atty

"Sue and Atty" wrote in message
...
I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was dreaming
or
seizing.



I think that once you have seen a seizure you will know it.
There is no mistaking it for a dreaming dog.

Even the mildest seizure I have ever witnessed provoked a reaction from my
body that just screamed "this is wrong!"


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm

"Sue and Atty" said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

So, I thought I'd ask those who might have more first hand
experience............... how do you know if your dog is
dreaming ("chasing rabbits" - toes twitching, lips
twitching, legs twitching, ocassional eyes rolling back to
show the whites, but seeming to be fast asleep - in perhaps
REM sleep) or seizing?

Rocky's seizures are always when he's asleep; the first time, I
thought he was choking - it's *that* different from "chasing
rabbits in his sleep. That doesn't mean I don't immediately
wake up, thinking the worst, when he is really is dream-chasing
wascally wabbits.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

In article ,
Sue and Atty wrote:
how do you know if your dog is dreaming
("chasing rabbits" - toes twitching, lips twitching, legs twitching,
ocassional eyes rolling back to show the whites, but seeming to be fast
asleep - in perhaps REM sleep) or seizing?

The difference between dreaming and grand mal seizures is
unmistakable. I have no experience with petit mal seizures,
so I don't know about that. But last night Image was
twitching more intensely than usual and I found it slightly
disturbing, but when I said her name she woke up and looked
at me. That's not a seizure.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

Melinda Shore wrote:
But last night Image was
twitching more intensely than usual and I found it slightly
disturbing, but when I said her name she woke up and looked
at me. That's not a seizure.

Harriet is a physical dreamer. She twitches, growls, and kicks
(being boxed in the middle of the night is *so* much fun). She's
clearly not having a seizure, though, because she can be easily
wakened.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Sue and Atty wrote:

I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was dreaming or
seizing.

So, I thought I'd ask those who might have more first hand
experience............... how do you know if your dog is dreaming
("chasing rabbits" - toes twitching, lips twitching, legs twitching,
ocassional eyes rolling back to show the whites, but seeming to be fast
asleep - in perhaps REM sleep) or seizing?

In this case it never happens when the dog is awake, but quite often when
she sleeps - (both during the day and at night) - sometimes more intense
than others, but there is usually some toe twitching during every nap/night.

Thanks in advance........ looking forward to your opinions.

Sue and Atty



There's no mistaking a seizure (grand mal) - it's quite violent and
often the dog will foam at the mouth and urinate. They thrash
violently. The first time I witnessed my dog seizing I thought he was
having a heart attack. Petite mal seizures - I saw him have one, but
he was awake at the time and worked his mouth up and down. It didn't
last long. His grand mal seizures always happened when he was asleep.
They never lasted longer than a minute, but he was always very
disoriented when they stopped and it took him ages to calm down
afterwards. They do not respond to anything when in a seizure, unlike
dreaming where you simply call the dog or touch them and they will wake up.

Poor old boy - I miss him.
Flip

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:38:45 -0400, "Toni" wrote:


"Sue and Atty" wrote in message
...
I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was dreaming
or
seizing.



I think that once you have seen a seizure you will know it.
There is no mistaking it for a dreaming dog.

Even the mildest seizure I have ever witnessed provoked a reaction from my
body that just screamed "this is wrong!"

The odd thing about seizures, IME at least, is that even if you have
never seen one, you know immediately what it is. Dreaming dogs don't
convulse or arch, lose control of their bladder and/or bowels, froth
at the mouth, or snap their jaws. Conversely, dreaming dogs wake up,
whereas you can't call a dog out of a seizure. And normally, in petit
mal seizures (which might involve some of the twitching you see when
dogs are dreaming), the dogs don't lose consciousness, so it's pretty
clear they're not dreaming.

Mustang Sally

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:38:45 -0400, "Toni" wrote:


"Sue and Atty" wrote in message
...
I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was
dreaming
or
seizing.



I think that once you have seen a seizure you will know it.
There is no mistaking it for a dreaming dog.

Even the mildest seizure I have ever witnessed provoked a reaction from
my
body that just screamed "this is wrong!"

The odd thing about seizures, IME at least, is that even if you have
never seen one, you know immediately what it is. Dreaming dogs don't
convulse or arch, lose control of their bladder and/or bowels, froth
at the mouth, or snap their jaws. Conversely, dreaming dogs wake up,
whereas you can't call a dog out of a seizure. And normally, in petit
mal seizures (which might involve some of the twitching you see when
dogs are dreaming), the dogs don't lose consciousness, so it's pretty
clear they're not dreaming.

Mustang Sally

Thank you to all for your responses. You all have been quite helpful and
informative.

Sally -
A question on your mention of snapping their jaw - is that an aggressive
snap, or could it be a gentle thing, almost like smacking their lips, like
what I would think a human does when smacking their lips together (sorry,
that's the only comparison I could think of).

It seems that identifying grand mal seizures while asleep is pretty clear.
Am I also reading correctly that they can have petit seizures while asleep?
And in that case, simply calling their name or touching and getting a
response would indicate that it is indeed a dream vs a petit mal seizure.

Sue and Atty

"Sue and Atty" wrote in message
...
I was involved in a conversation this past week where we were discussing
canine epilepsy. The question came up as to whether the dog was dreaming
or
seizing.

So, I thought I'd ask those who might have more first hand
experience............... how do you know if your dog is dreaming
("chasing rabbits" - toes twitching, lips twitching, legs twitching,
ocassional eyes rolling back to show the whites, but seeming to be fast
asleep - in perhaps REM sleep) or seizing?

In this case it never happens when the dog is awake, but quite often when
she sleeps - (both during the day and at night) - sometimes more intense
than others, but there is usually some toe twitching during every
nap/night.

Thanks in advance........ looking forward to your opinions.

Sue and Atty
=====================
I would think if they were seizing they would have their eyes open; not
shut as they would if sleeping. Also, I would think the shaking of the body
would be more intense and rather frightening to watch. My dog dreams a lot.
Her eyes are closed, her legs move as though she were running. sometimes
she woofs. If I call her name she wakes up.
If a dog is having a seizure, I don't think just calling her name would make
her stop.

"Sue and Atty" said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

Sally -
A question on your mention of snapping their jaw - is
that an aggressive
snap, or could it be a gentle thing, almost like smacking
their lips, like what I would think a human does when
smacking their lips together (sorry, that's the only
comparison I could think of).

Not a Sally. I mentioned in my other post that I thought
Rocky's first seizure was a choking incident (it was 2am and I
wasn't at my cognitive best). Reaching into his mouth, his
snapping did some damage to my hand - just cuts and bruising,
but far from gentle.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.