Came upon a post about a Dane puppy (3 months old) who got violently ill
with vomiting and diarrhea, was operated on for intussusception which wasn't
found upon surgery. Soon afterwards, his lungs collapsed and he was in
respiratory failure, but the pup rallied, was off oxygen, and eating and
drinking, all within 24 hours. Biopsy from the intestine indicated IBD,
either from a reaction to the raw diet or a parasite.

Three days after all this, the pup was fine one morning, and then became
blind within half a day. The pupils apparently appear dilated, and he is
permanently blind. The eye specialist told them that they found "track
marks" in the eye, and it was from a parasite. So the question is, what
kind of parasite would cause the pup to go blind? I have never heard any
such thing before, and was wondering if not following a proper deworming
protocol would lead to something like this.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
news:vwoCg.20$SZ3.12@dukeread04...
The eye specialist told them that they found "track
marks" in the eye, and it was from a parasite. So the question is, what
kind of parasite would cause the pup to go blind? I have never heard any
such thing before, and was wondering if not following a proper deworming
protocol would lead to something like this.

........while roundworms can affect the eyes of humans, I've never heard of
them affecting dogs.

......I found a reference in Merck Vet Manual to eyeworms (nematodes) that
can affect small animals called Thelazia californiensis and T. callipaeda.
Filth flies (musca spp., Fannia spp.) serve as intermediate hosts. They
rarely cause blindness.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=735

........Did the eye specialist actually say that the parasite had caused the
blindness? I'm wondering if some aspect of the operation caused the blood
pressure to soar and it blew out the retinas. While this can happen in
cats, don't know the frequency in dogs.
http://www.vetinfo.com/cateye.html#S...due%20to% 20h
ypertension

.........Neospora caninum can also cause blindness, but this is a result of
infecting the CNS and brain, so you get lots of neurological symptoms first.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

buglady wrote:

"Suja" wrote in message
news:vwoCg.20$SZ3.12@dukeread04...
The eye specialist told them that they found "track
marks" in the eye, and it was from a parasite. So the question is, what
kind of parasite would cause the pup to go blind? I have never heard any
such thing before, and was wondering if not following a proper deworming
protocol would lead to something like this.


.......Did the eye specialist actually say that the parasite had caused the
blindness?

That's my question, too. Apart from the bit about parasites,
I thought my history with a cat might be relevant.

The cat was one of two kittens that had been raised supposedly
on a foster mother. They were undersized when I got them, and
just didn't grow and gain health. I can't remember exactly what
age they were when I took them to my vet, maybe five months?
They were tiny, though. The orange male was probably in a
little worse shape than the female (she was a cinnamon-bun cat:
classic tabby with swirls but also tortoiseshell). We treated them
with injected Ivomec for parasites including ear mites, Program,
and two other things.

The next day the male kitten was blind. His eyes were dilated and
milky-looking, and he appeared not to be able to see at all. I had
an appointment to have a dog CERFed, as it happened, so I took
him along.

Here's how helpful an expert can be.

After examining my dog, the ophthalmologist took a look at the
kitten. "Congenital cataracts," she pronounced. He's been
blind since birth. I told her that there had always been every
indication he'd been able to see, and that my vet had examined
him the previous day and seen no problem with his eyes.
"He's got congenital cataracts," she repeated.

The next day was Friday and my vet was too busy to schedule
a euthanasia (this was a very sick kitten, now blind as well,
weighing under a pound at five months of age). I cared for him
over the weekend, and on Sunday or Monday noticed that his
eyes were responding to light. The pupils were constricting
part way.

Over a couple of weeks the cataracts progressively cleared up.
My vet, who was wonderfully free from arrogance and dogmatism,
helped me research the problem. Finally she called her ophthalmology
prof. from vet school. He told her of a rare condition called
"toxic cataracts," in which an animal that is already in very
poor condition can react to certain medications by forming
vesicles in the lens of the eye. He said usually they gradually
clear up.

We didn't know which medication had caused it. The prof had
mentioned antibiotics. A month later, when I gave him more
Program, his eyes clouded up again. It was not as bad this
time, but never completely cleared up, either. The Program
didn't fit our expectations, and I think it surprised the professor,
but it was a pretty obvious consequence. I haven't used it
since.

You didn't mention clouding of the eyes, but I thought I'd
put this out there.

Amy Dahl

"buglady" wrote in message

.......while roundworms can affect the eyes of humans, I've never heard of
them affecting dogs.

That's what the ophthalmologist said it was, Roundworms.

I really feel for this dog's owners. The breeder had appeared to be a good
one, but started bailing as soon as problems started. Now, they aren't sure
if she ever dewormed her dogs. The vet (the pup was in ICU for a few days)
had mentioned deworming the dog, but never did. I don't know how common it
is for the vet to not suggest deworming a pup in intestinal distress.

.......Did the eye specialist actually say that the parasite had caused
the
blindness? I'm wondering if some aspect of the operation caused the blood
pressure to soar and it blew out the retinas.

The pup didn't go blind until days after the surgery, so I don't think
that's it. The eye specialist did say that it was the roundworms that
caused the blindness.

Now they're trying to figure out if this could've been from the raw diet.

Suja

"Suja" wrote in message
news:Pc0Dg.967$SZ3.384@dukeread04...
That's what the ophthalmologist said it was, Roundworms.
Now, they aren't sure
if she ever dewormed her dogs.

............I just have a hard time buying this. If a 3 month old puppy can
readily go blind from untreated roundworms, I just think you'd see a lot
more of it. Did he actually find roundworms in the eye? The eyeworms I
mentioned seem more likely to me and these rarely cause blindness. I still
think it's somehow connected to the surgery. Without a full written report
from the opthamologist, it's hard to tell what exactly he/she said.

Now they're trying to figure out if this could've been from the raw diet.

.........Honestly, I really don't see how this could be. If it was Neospora
there's be other symptoms.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"buglady" wrote in message:

...........I just have a hard time buying this. If a 3 month old puppy
can
readily go blind from untreated roundworms, I just think you'd see a lot
more of it.

I'm guessing this is an unusual reaction of some sort?

Did he actually find roundworms in the eye?

No, just 'track marks', whatever that means.

The eyeworms I
mentioned seem more likely to me and these rarely cause blindness. I
still
think it's somehow connected to the surgery. Without a full written
report
from the opthamologist, it's hard to tell what exactly he/she said.

That's one of the frustrating things about trying to figure out problems
encountered by someone else. Me, I ask a billion questions, get actual
values, check, double check and triple check. Some people just okay
whatever the vet says, no questions asked.

A friend called last night to ask me which canned foods I feed. I told her,
and asked why. She said that her vet (holistic) suggested that 3 of her
dogs need more protein in their diet. One because her blood work came back
with low urea (she may be pre-Cushings also), which I sort of get. Another
had bloody urine - which made no sense whatsoever. What kind of problem
does a dog have that leads to blood in urine, but is also solved by adding
protein to their diet and no other treatment? The third one, I don't
remember the reason. Anyway, I had more questions about what the vet wanted
to do and why than she did. I just don't get that.

Suja

"Amy Dahl" wrote in message
...

That's my question, too. Apart from the bit about parasites,
I thought my history with a cat might be relevant.

Ok, now I'm all nutty to find out what happened to this little guy.

Tara

"Suja" wrote in message
news:262Dg.975$SZ3.219@dukeread04...

I'm guessing this is an unusual reaction of some sort?

..........Yeah, but I think it's more likely an unusual reaction to whatever
was going on plus surgery.

That's one of the frustrating things about trying to figure out problems
encountered by someone else. Me, I ask a billion questions, get actual
values, check, double check and triple check. Some people just okay
whatever the vet says, no questions asked.

...........There isn't much you can do about that. For whatever reason, some
people aren't inclined to get totally involved in all aspects of their
animal's illness. This is said without judgment, as sometimes their vets
only talk vetspeak and don't know how to translate scientific information to
lay terms or don't welcome a partnership with a client, some people have a
belief they can't understand science stuff, or have no time to involve
themselves due to other crises in their lives at the moment. And some just
believe that to question their vet (who after all is the one with the
degree) is like questioning a diety.

A friend called last night to ask me which canned foods I feed. I told
her,
and asked why. She said that her vet (holistic) suggested that 3 of her
dogs need more protein in their diet. One because her blood work came
back
with low urea (she may be pre-Cushings also), which I sort of get.
Another
had bloody urine - which made no sense whatsoever. What kind of problem
does a dog have that leads to blood in urine, but is also solved by adding
protein to their diet and no other treatment?

........See, perfect example. I don't think the vet was looking to solve the
problems with a higher protein diet, but rather try to supply all the dogs
with what they need to improve their overall health. I imagine this is a
base philosophy, not a reaction to whatever illnesses are going on. I think
it's safe to say (as a generality), that most holistic vets always address
the food issue as a part of the quest for better health.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"buglady" wrote in message

This is said without judgment, as sometimes their vets
only talk vetspeak and don't know how to translate scientific information
to
lay terms or don't welcome a partnership with a client, some people have a
belief they can't understand science stuff, or have no time to involve
themselves due to other crises in their lives at the moment.

Yup, I agree. I specifically chose the vet at our practice who treats me as
someone with a brain, respects choices/decisions I make, is willing to
discuss any concerns I have even if it doesn't relate to what we are seeing
her for, and spends an enormous amount of time with us. She is very detail
oriented and I really do enjoy talking to her. It is a huge bonus that she
seems to be the only person around who can draw blood from Khan's legs
instead of his jugular (I know there is nothing wrong with that, but he is
more stressed by it than by having blood drawn from his legs).

.......See, perfect example. I don't think the vet was looking to solve
the
problems with a higher protein diet, but rather try to supply all the dogs
with what they need to improve their overall health.

That's what I ended up guessing, although there doesn't appear to be any
basis for this, as the bloodwork came back just fine.

I imagine this is a
base philosophy, not a reaction to whatever illnesses are going on.

When I asked what medication the vet gave for the bloody urine, the answer
was 'Nothing'. When the question was rephrased to 'So how's the vet
addressing the bloody urine problem?', I was told that she gave her some
sort of a supplement or herb that is good for the liver. No, she didn't
know what it was (Milk Thistle?). How do you give your dog medications or
supplements, and not know what it is you're administering? Of course, it
was totally pointless to ask why the vet thought this was a liver problem
and not something else.

I think
it's safe to say (as a generality), that most holistic vets always address
the food issue as a part of the quest for better health.

I guess so. The dogs have been on a good quality kibble, and as far as I
could tell, the protein/fat ratios are well within the norm. So, I'm not
sure why she wants the increased protein. But, I'm sure there are many,
many nuances behind all this that I have not been made aware of.

Suja