The new vet recommended using this dog food for Maui and Cali. I had
mentioned that Cali had "mucus" diarrhea earlier in the week and Roundworms
in January and July (and a negative test in August). She thinks it would
help with their ears too (they both had a mild yeast infection in one ear).
After reading the ingredient list, I am un-impressed. It has Brewers Rice,
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal as the
top 4 ingredients. I am currently feeding California Natural (which the vet
knew). I plan to call her now that I looked into the food, but so far I
don't think this new food sounds better. Plus, Maui's hair is so soft
lately,
which I attribute to the Californai Natural diet. Also, with Maui being a
picky eater,
I'd hate to keep changing his food now that I found one I like.Maybe it is
better and
I can't tell because I don't know enough? Hopefully she'll explain why it
is better
or why she recommends it. Maybe I am just a pain but I'd like to feel like
I am making an informed choice and not just doing everything she says
because she's the vet. Has anyone used it in the past and had good
experiences with it? Here's a link in case anyone wants to see the food.

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1157169291826

As always THANKS for any responses.

~~~~~
Jenny, Maui and Cali

diddy wrote:

The ingredient list isn't what is important. Nutrients break down into
molecules. There is no such thing as a "corn molecule"

I don't agree with this. With the disclaimer that I don't come close
to having "the answers" about dog food, I have learned a few things.
One is that the proteins found in different sources are distinct: beef
protein, chicken protein, egg protein (albumin), milk protein (casein),
wheat protein, etc. While in some ideal sense, proteins are broken
down into small components before being absorbed in the small
intestine, this process is not perfect, and big pieces can get into the
bloodstream. (source: Strombeck's "Home-Prepared Dog and Cat
Diets: the Healthful Alternative.)

Important features of ingredients are their _digestibility_, and, for
protein sources, their _biological_value_. Digestibility, if I understand
correctly, is the proportion (like percent) that can be broken down and
absorbed in the intestine. Low digestibility ingredients leave a lot
behind. In the case of protein sources, undigested protein, which
contains nitrogen in the form of amino groups, will break down to
yield ammonia, which irritates the lining of the intestine. This may
make absorption less efficient, while increasing the quantity of big
protein molecules that get into the bloodstream. (Strombeck)

Biological value has to do with the amino acid content of the protein.
Proteins are, chemically, long chains of amino acids joined together.
There are around 20, IIRC, distinct amino acids that are important for
life (on Earth). To synthesize protein in its own body, the animal
doing the eating needs all of the amino acids in the correct ratio for
its characteristic proteins. If there is only enough of one particular
amino acid to synthesize, say, five grams of its protein, then that
particular amino acid is "limiting," and no amount of surplus of others
will enable the animal to make more protein. The closer the supplied
ratio of amino acids is to the needed ratio, the more fully the animal
will be able to utilize the protein it has eaten. The farther the supplied
ratio is from what is needed, the more waste (and the less usable)
amino acids there will be. (source: undergrad organic chemistry)

In principle you can just feed your dog more--but what happens to
that waste? That nitrogen in the amino groups needs to be cleaned
from the body, and that is done by the kidneys. The more unusable
protein an animal eats, the more work its kidneys have to do to
clean out the nitrogen from the surplus amino acids. Does this
burden or age the kidneys? I don't know, but notice that "senior
dog" formulas often have reduced protein supposedly to lighten
the load on the kidneys. (source: undergrad biology)



Hills Prescription diets are known to be very effective. They hydrolyze
the long protien chains (and it's the long protien chans that are unstable
and react, causing allergies) so they CAN'T react, and become stable. So
even if an ingredient is one that formerly, in it's natural state caused
reactions, it shouldn't in the hydrolyzed state.

I have heard this said of the z/d diet for allergies. I'm guessing the OP
here is probably talking about i/d. Does the i/d also have hydrolyzed
protein?

It's your dog, If you refuse an option that may help your dog, I guess it's
up to you.

It's possible to go overboard with stuff that "may" help, in someone's
opinion. A lot of things described that way can also hurt. It's good
to try to get as well-informed as possible before making changes to
a dog's diet, IMO--not that that's easy to do.

Amy Dahl

On Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:30:46 -0400, "MauiJNP" ,
clicked their heels and said:

The new vet recommended using this dog food for Maui and Cali. I had
mentioned that Cali had "mucus" diarrhea earlier in the week

Rudy gets those if he eats little pieces of rubber toys. It indicates
minor irritation in the bowel. If it's once in awhile and can be
attributed to something, I don't worry about it.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

The new vet recommended using this dog food for Maui and Cali. I
had
mentioned that Cali had "mucus" diarrhea earlier in the week and
Roundworms in January and July (and a negative test in August). She
thinks it would help with their ears too (they both had a mild yeast
infection in one ear). After reading the ingredient list, I am
un-impressed. It has Brewers Rice, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Corn
Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal as the top 4 ingredients. I am
currently feeding California Natural (which the vet knew). I plan to
call her now that I looked into the food, but so far I don't think
this new food sounds better. Plus, Maui's hair is so soft lately,
which I attribute to the Californai Natural diet. Also, with Maui
being a picky eater, I'd hate to keep changing his food now that I found
one I like.Maybe
it is better and I can't tell because I don't know enough? Hopefully
she'll explain
why it is better or why she recommends it. Maybe I am just a pain but
I'd like to feel
like I am making an informed choice and not just doing everything she
says because she's the vet. Has anyone used it in the past and had
good experiences with it? Here's a link in case anyone wants to see
the food.

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...jsp?PRODUCT%3C
%3Eprd_id=845524441760622&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=25 34374302037387&bmUID=
1157169291826

As always THANKS for any responses.

~~~~~
Jenny, Maui and Cali





The ingredient list isn't what is important.


ok.


Nutrients break down into
molecules. There is no such thing as a "corn molecule" As it's all
broken
down into component that can be used. Maui apparently isn't doing well on
California NaTURAL, which is why the vet suggested a change.


Hills Prescription diets are known to be very effective.


the food she wants me to buy is store bought, can it still be considered a
prescription diet?



They hydrolyze the long protien chains (and it's the long protien chans
that are unstable
and react, causing allergies) so they CAN'T react, and become stable. So
even if an ingredient is one that formerly, in it's natural state caused
reactions, it shouldn't in the hydrolyzed state.

It's your dog, If you refuse an option that may help your dog, I guess
it's
up to you.

In article , MauiJNP wrote:
After reading the ingredient list, I am un-impressed.

I think it sounds okay. The main questions are
digestibility and nutrition, and what's in there doesn't
sound problematic on either count. Actually, backing up a
level the question is really whether or not there's a
problem with the current diet, and frankly it doesn't sound
as if there is. The prescription diets are really for dogs
for whom a solid poop is the exception, not the other way
'round. Occasional diarrhea is something to keep an eye on,
and possibly reason to consider switching to another
consumer feed or to consider supplementing with something
like pumpkin or yogurt, but I save the prescription foods
for situations like when Duncan first came here and was
having several bloody, mucusy diarrheas a day and no solid
poops.

My dogs are currently eating California Natural Lamb & Rice
and I do think they're producing very nice poops - not the
best they've ever had, but it's up there. Not that this has
any bearing on your question, but I rarely pass up the
opportunity to talk about dog poop.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

In article , MauiJNP wrote:
ok.

No, it's not okay. Ingredients are very important when
considering the question of digestibility and the digestive
tract's ability to extract nutrients, energy, and so on.
Those Hills morons really screwed some people up. It's true
that an ingredients list is not sufficient to tell you the
whole story about the food, but it's one necessary piece of
information.

If you're interested in learning more about dog nutrition, I
think Jocelynn Jacobs' "Performance Dog Nutrition" is a good
book, even if you don't do athletic stuff with your dogs.
It includes discussions of ingredients, nutrients, and how
to read dog food labels, as well as discussions of nutrition
in general.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Bad policies lead to bad results.

On 7 Sep 2006 17:06:01 -0400, (Melinda Shore), clicked
their heels and said:

My dogs are currently eating California Natural Lamb & Rice
and I do think they're producing very nice poops - not the
best they've ever had, but it's up there. Not that this has
any bearing on your question, but I rarely pass up the
opportunity to talk about dog poop.


LOL! Rudy eats CA Nat as his primary food (he gets raw too, but can't
maintain weight on it). He's stool is normall just fine, but rubber
toy bits do have an ill effect. Speaking of which - Planet Dog is
sending me a replacement for the "Orbee" that he totally destroyed.
Good company.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

The new vet recommended using this dog food for Maui and Cali. I had
mentioned that Cali had "mucus" diarrhea earlier in the week

Rudy gets those if he eats little pieces of rubber toys. It indicates
minor irritation in the bowel. If it's once in awhile and can be
attributed to something, I don't worry about it.



I bet that is the problem with Cali. She likes to steal my nephews farm
animals to bite off their heads or legs. Though she isn't picky and will
gladly eat the star wars toys, rubber ducky and anything else that that
wasn't picked up.

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 18:20:13 -0500, diddy
wrote:

I/D is a prescription diet.

How on earth is that relevant?

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 13:43:37 -0500, diddy
wrote:

Hills Prescription diets are known to be very effective.

Except when they are not. *Not* that the food she's referring to is
actually a prescription diet.

It's your dog, If you refuse an option that may help your dog, I guess it's
up to you.

Asking questions is *such* a bad thing.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)