Janet Puistonen wrote:
The OP should realize
that if the dog is not evaluated as offically "breed worthy" by the SV, then
any litters he sired wouldn't be registerable.

The OP didn't mention registration of the pups, but I would assume
that the dog is RKF registered and would be AKC registrable, and
therefore the pups would be AKC registrable (assuming the dam is AKC
registered).

I don't imagine the SV has much jurisdiction in California or
Russia. Isn't SV the German Shepherd Dog Club of Germany?

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

shelly wrote:
Janet Puistonen wrote:
The OP should realize
that if the dog is not evaluated as offically "breed worthy" by the
SV, then any litters he sired wouldn't be registerable.

The OP didn't mention registration of the pups, but I would assume
that the dog is RKF registered and would be AKC registrable, and
therefore the pups would be AKC registrable (assuming the dam is AKC
registered).

I don't imagine the SV has much jurisdiction in California or
Russia. Isn't SV the German Shepherd Dog Club of Germany?

Within the US there are people who breed according to the SV system. They
hold SV shows, and so forth. They tend to view the AKC version of the GSD as
less than desirable. I have the impression that there are more people
associated with this all the time. I'm not certain, but I would imagine that
the GSDs coming from Eastern Europe probably follow the SV rules also.

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 22:12:54 GMT, "Janet Puistonen"
wrote:

Within the US there are people who breed according to the SV system. They
hold SV shows, and so forth.

Sure, but those folks cannot withhold AKC registration from someone.
That said, the OP didn't mention registration of any sort, so perhaps
it's not something she's concerned about?

They tend to view the AKC version of the GSD as
less than desirable. I have the impression that there are more people
associated with this all the time. I'm not certain, but I would imagine that
the GSDs coming from Eastern Europe probably follow the SV rules also.

Quite possible, but I've heard some horror stories about eastern
European GSD imports. Folks get dogs from there without considering
that the dogs that are being sold for export aren't automatically of
good quality. Gullible buyers in the US are a good place to pawn off
inferior dogs for big bucks. (That likely does not apply to the OP,
since she is from Moscow and did not purchase the dog as an export.)

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

My business is circumference.
-- Emily Dickenson

"Janet Puistonen" wrote in message
news:GxAVg.636$YD.21@trndny09...
shelly wrote:
Janet Puistonen wrote:
The OP should realize
that if the dog is not evaluated as offically "breed worthy" by the
SV, then any litters he sired wouldn't be registerable.

The OP didn't mention registration of the pups, but I would assume
that the dog is RKF registered and would be AKC registrable, and
therefore the pups would be AKC registrable (assuming the dam is AKC
registered).

I don't imagine the SV has much jurisdiction in California or
Russia. Isn't SV the German Shepherd Dog Club of Germany?

Within the US there are people who breed according to the SV system. They
hold SV shows, and so forth. They tend to view the AKC version of the GSD
as less than desirable. I have the impression that there are more people
associated with this all the time. I'm not certain, but I would imagine
that the GSDs coming from Eastern Europe probably follow the SV rules
also.

I would think. But then, Finn came from Eastern European SV lines. Crossed
with American conformation.

In fact, if its a dog from high drive European lines, all the more reason,
IMO, to make absolutely certain that the dog has been trialed and is
breedworthy. The lesson of Finn is its horribly unfair to breed a dog with
incredible amounts of drive, and not guarantee that the temperament and
physical structure are up to what the dog's heart and drive want it to do.

Tara

First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding so quickly to my
inquiry.
I am a beginner and unfortunately besides the GSD and the AKC
abbreviations, I don't know much more. So please bear with me
remembering the days when you just got started
Graff was brought here as a puppy and has his Pedigree certificate,
passport, chip and all over documents that are required to legally
bring a dog (The AKC registration I am finding out about, my dad said
he had registered, but I am not sure it was done correctly so I am
looking into it)
The dog was trained by a professional dog trainer. He is very sweet to
people and is good with dogs (he actually gets picked on by my
neighbors miniature poodle).
Obviously I do not want my puppy's puppies to be born into bad
conditions just for the purpose of someone wanting to make a buck;
that's why I am trying to find out everything that I can do to allow
him to have a happy full life.
So question #1:
Once the dog is registered with the AKC, what would you recommend
doing?
Oksana

TaraG wrote:
"diddy" wrote in message
...
in thread news:yftVg.7$HP.6@trndny08: "TaraG"
whittled the following words:

wrote in message
ups.com...
I brought a German shepherd dog from Moscow and he is now 2 years old.
I want to find him a girlfriend, but don't know where to start.
His parents are show dogs, but we never showed Graff.
Need some advice on how to go about finding him a girl.

If you aren't even willing to show him (or trial him in ANY German
Shepherd related working events), then why would you consider breeding
him?

There is no shortage of Shepherds in rescue that were the result of
poorly thought out "Pet" breedings. In fact, the rescues have far more
of these than they can handle.
I agree about the health testing, but is health testing in place in
Russia?
It would be nice to start, but without a coalition of breeders agreeing to
do this, it really doesn't say anything about bloodlines until there is a
database. And are there a lot of rescue dogs in Russia? Or does this
otherwise excellent advice even apply to the OP?

Anytime someone is contemplating breeding their untested pet, this advice
applies. If you notice, I also mentioned (*stressed* actually) temperament
issues. Whether or not the greater GSD community is testing for health
issues, I'm unclear as to how potentially breeding Shepherds with aggressive
or overly fearful temperaments is a good thing no matter *what* country the
OP is in.

Tara

On 6 Oct 2006 17:39:42 -0700 oknika whittled these words:
First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding so quickly to my
inquiry.
I am a beginner and unfortunately besides the GSD and the AKC
abbreviations, I don't know much more. So please bear with me
remembering the days when you just got started

Good. You are open to learning.

First, of course you are proud of your dog. That is as it should be.
Just take your time to learn because the lives of the puppies are at stake
here. Most people who breed are very sincere in wanting the best for
their dog, and for the puppies. They are less patient about learning what
that means. I know it seems like a lot of trouble to read books, work
with rescue, and participate in your local GSD club. But you need these
sources of information. You aren't going to learn what you need in one
quick internet lesson. The best we can do is show how passionate we are
that you not create puppies until you have gained that knowledge.

It is really very much harder to place puppies in permanent homes than
most people know. See, good dog people have a hard time guessing how
clueless other people can be. So because they aren't familiar with what
goes wrong they *think* they have a good home, but it wasn't. More than
half of puppies lose their home before the age of two. Large breed dogs,
like the GSD have the hardest time getting adopted. That is why I
recommend working with rescue. Instead of getting a lot of "stories"
about why people give up their dogs, get some first hand experience. Sure,
it takes time and effort, but if you are going to add dogs to the
population it seems only fair to do something to help the dogs already
in existence.

Explore this page
http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/ethics.html - is there anything you
disagree with? If so, why?

Here is a worksheet to help you evaluate your plans:
http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/breeder_worksheet.html

--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/

"diddy" wrote in message
...
in thread oups.com:
"oknika" whittled the following words:

First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding so quickly to my
inquiry.
I am a beginner and unfortunately besides the GSD and the AKC
abbreviations, I don't know much more. So please bear with me
remembering the days when you just got started
Graff was brought here as a puppy and has his Pedigree certificate,
passport, chip and all over documents that are required to legally
bring a dog (The AKC registration I am finding out about, my dad said
he had registered, but I am not sure it was done correctly so I am
looking into it)
The dog was trained by a professional dog trainer. He is very sweet
to people and is good with dogs (he actually gets picked on by my
neighbors miniature poodle).
Obviously I do not want my puppy's puppies to be born into bad
conditions just for the purpose of someone wanting to make a buck;
that's why I am trying to find out everything that I can do to allow
him to have a happy full life.
So question #1:
Once the dog is registered with the AKC, what would you recommend
doing?
Oksana
Spay her

The individual in question is actually a male so neutering would be better!
I think the OP needs very basic advise such as "read the breed standard, go
to dog shows and observe and talk to GSD people, learn about what it means
to be a responsible breeder, know what health and temperament issues are
important and how to have them assessed, become familiar with the genetics
of breeding (line breeding, outcrossing), have knowledgeable GSD people
evaluate/critique her dog."
She should also answer the question, "Why do I want to breed him; what does
he have to offer that is so outstanding that he should reproduce?"
As many know, having a sweet personality and being trained by a professional
handler are not criteria for breeding.
If the dog is friendly and out-going and has basic obedience training, it
might be a candidate for working with its owner as a therapy dog. He will
certainly be appreciated by many people if they went in this direction, and
his owner will have the satisfaction of sharing her dog in a very positive
way.

Margaret

Shelly wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 22:12:54 GMT, "Janet Puistonen"
wrote:

Within the US there are people who breed according to the SV system.
They hold SV shows, and so forth.

Sure, but those folks cannot withhold AKC registration from someone.

Yes, but I wasn't referring to AKC registration. I was referring to SV
registration. Sorry I wasn't clear. In the SV system, litters produced by
dogs not officially evaluated as breedworthy can't be registered. It's one
of the ways that they--supposedly, anyway--enforce their standards.

That said, the OP didn't mention registration of any sort, so perhaps
it's not something she's concerned about?

I have no idea, but it is certainly something to think about when breeding.
It's not unreasonable to think that a person who has a dog whose parents
were show dogs might be interested in registering any litters with one of
the respected registries of the breed. I was hoping that it might make her
think about getting her dog titled and tested and so forth before breeding
him.

They tend to view the AKC version of the GSD as
less than desirable. I have the impression that there are more people
associated with this all the time. I'm not certain, but I would
imagine that the GSDs coming from Eastern Europe probably follow the
SV rules also.

Quite possible, but I've heard some horror stories about eastern
European GSD imports. Folks get dogs from there without considering
that the dogs that are being sold for export aren't automatically of
good quality. Gullible buyers in the US are a good place to pawn off
inferior dogs for big bucks. (That likely does not apply to the OP,
since she is from Moscow and did not purchase the dog as an export.)

Yup, I've heard that too.

diddy wrote:
Spay her

It's a male.

oknika wrote:
First of all, I want to thank everyone for responding so quickly to my
inquiry.
I am a beginner and unfortunately besides the GSD and the AKC
abbreviations, I don't know much more. So please bear with me
remembering the days when you just got started
Graff was brought here as a puppy and has his Pedigree certificate,
passport, chip and all over documents that are required to legally
bring a dog (The AKC registration I am finding out about, my dad said
he had registered, but I am not sure it was done correctly so I am
looking into it)
The dog was trained by a professional dog trainer. He is very sweet
to people and is good with dogs (he actually gets picked on by my
neighbors miniature poodle).
Obviously I do not want my puppy's puppies to be born into bad
conditions just for the purpose of someone wanting to make a buck;
that's why I am trying to find out everything that I can do to allow
him to have a happy full life.
So question #1:
Once the dog is registered with the AKC, what would you recommend
doing?
Oksana

After having read Diane's excellent advice, if you are still interested in
breeding, I would suggest that you become informed on the difference between
the AKC GSD and the SV GSD, and decide which arena you wish to participate
in. There are some internet groups devoted specifically to GSDs of either
type. Googling to finding one of them would be a start. (There used to be
something called the German Shepherd Dog Web Ring, but I haven't looked into
it in a number of years, so I don't know what's out there now.)

Frankly, there are plenty of European imports in the hands of people who are
experienced breeders right now, so whether your dog would add anything to
the breed's gene pool is questionable. But on the other hand, even good
breeders started somewhere. I'd say find a few breeders whose dogs you
admire, and ask them to evaluate yours. Perhaps they will mentor you. Also
be aware that an SV-style GSD may not do very well in the AKC comformation
ring, and vice versa. Really, you need to find some people you trust who are
active in the GSD world.

It's my completely personal view that you have to be even more careful when
breeding GSDs than with many other breeds. They have an intensity and drive
that can make the consequences of poor breeding even more dire.

In any case, be prepared to put a lot of work into proving your dog
breedworthy.