Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy. He
is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to deal with
this issue the first time around.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries to
mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him for
something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up with
his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to see if
he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This causes him
to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just spoiled
brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the couch or my
leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by say
NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I leave the
room?

I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or toy,
but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a game or
treat for his naughtiness.

Thanks!

in thread oups.com:
"Urbanbike" whittled the following words:

Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy. He
is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to deal with
this issue the first time around.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries to
mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him for
something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up with
his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to see if
he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This causes him
to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just spoiled
brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the couch or my
leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

Take him to obedience school You need a lot more structure than newsgroups
offers. It's not HIM. It's YOU. He's doing normal puppy stuff. You have a
BIG dominant dog, that needs a clueful owner. You obtain those clues at
doggy school. If these are problems that you consider problems (I do too,
but wouldn't allow them to happen) then Get to dog school at once.
My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by say
NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I leave the
room?

Put him in a crate. GAME OVER. TIME OUT. DON'T LET HIM DO THAT

I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or toy,
but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a game or
treat for his naughtiness.
If that's what you think, you probably are right. STOP IT

Hi,

He is starting puppy school in two weeks. They would not take him
before 10 weeks old. To assume that I am not "clueful" is not
accurate. He isn't some wild, insane puppy left to his own devices
with absentee owners. We spend a ton of time working with him. He is
learning quite quickly (he sits, lays down, stays, comes, "watch-me"s,
and heels - straight line, no turns yet - sleeps through the night,
lets us know when it's time to go out to pee etc. etc. etc.) so it's
not that we aren't training with him, or that we are clueless. Right
now, I am using the newsgroups as they were intended, which is to start
a discussion on a topic. It would just be nice to start dealing with
the issue now, rather than wait until puppy school starts.

Your suggestion to put him in his crate as punishment goes against
everything I've learned about crating. It's supposed to be his own,
happy place.

Now, when you say that ~consider them problems but would not allow them
to happen~, what do you mean? Do you have a suggestions other than
sending him to his crate as punishment. And don't get me wrong, I am
still learning. If you have experience and can objectively tell me why
(or how) it won't make him think that his crate is a punishment, then
by all means, I will listen.

Thanks for your time



diddy wrote:
in thread oups.com:
"Urbanbike" whittled the following words:

Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy. He
is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to deal with
this issue the first time around.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries to
mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him for
something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up with
his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to see if
he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This causes him
to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just spoiled
brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the couch or my
leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

Take him to obedience school You need a lot more structure than newsgroups
offers. It's not HIM. It's YOU. He's doing normal puppy stuff. You have a
BIG dominant dog, that needs a clueful owner. You obtain those clues at
doggy school. If these are problems that you consider problems (I do too,
but wouldn't allow them to happen) then Get to dog school at once.
My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by say
NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I leave the
room?

Put him in a crate. GAME OVER. TIME OUT. DON'T LET HIM DO THAT

I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or toy,
but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a game or
treat for his naughtiness.
If that's what you think, you probably are right. STOP IT

"Urbanbike" wrote in
oups.com:

Hi,

He is starting puppy school in two weeks. They would not take him
before 10 weeks old. To assume that I am not "clueful" is not
accurate.

Diddy never assumed this. She meant that you learn the clues to
dealing with the behavior of a large dog in obedience classes. Had you
stated that you are starting classes soon in your first post, I don't think
she would have mentioned it. It's difficult to assess problems and give
advice over a computer which is why classes are suggested to most people
who post here with puppy behavior problems.

He isn't some wild, insane puppy left to his own devices
with absentee owners. We spend a ton of time working with him. He is
learning quite quickly (he sits, lays down, stays, comes, "watch-me"s,
and heels - straight line, no turns yet - sleeps through the night,
lets us know when it's time to go out to pee etc. etc. etc.) so it's
not that we aren't training with him, or that we are clueless.

You are working with him already which is what you should be doing
and that's great. Again, she never stated that you are clueless, she
suggested you get him into a class where you can learn the clues to dealing
with your questions.

Right
now, I am using the newsgroups as they were intended, which is to
start a discussion on a topic. It would just be nice to start dealing
with the issue now, rather than wait until puppy school starts.

Starting a discussion is fine and asking for advice is also fine. But
they are not necesiarily the same thing. Providing a little more
information would have been preferable so that someone could provide more
helpful advice.


Your suggestion to put him in his crate as punishment goes against
everything I've learned about crating. It's supposed to be his own,
happy place.

Now, when you say that ~consider them problems but would not allow
them to happen~, what do you mean? Do you have a suggestions other
than sending him to his crate as punishment. And don't get me wrong,
I am still learning. If you have experience and can objectively tell
me why (or how) it won't make him think that his crate is a
punishment, then by all means, I will listen.

It's not actually punishment, it's a time out so that he can calm
down. Don't make a big deal of it or tell him that he's misbehaving or
anything. Just calmly put him in his crate until he calms down.


Thanks for your time



diddy wrote:
in thread oups.com:
"Urbanbike" whittled the following words:

Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy.
He is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to
deal with this issue the first time around.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries
to mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him
for something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up
with his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to
see if he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This
causes him to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just
spoiled brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the
couch or my leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

Take him to obedience school You need a lot more structure than
newsgroups offers. It's not HIM. It's YOU. He's doing normal puppy
stuff. You have a BIG dominant dog, that needs a clueful owner. You
obtain those clues at doggy school. If these are problems that you
consider problems (I do too, but wouldn't allow them to happen) then
Get to dog school at once.
My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by
say NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I
leave the room?

Put him in a crate. GAME OVER. TIME OUT. DON'T LET HIM DO THAT

I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or
toy, but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a
game or treat for his naughtiness.
If that's what you think, you probably are right. STOP IT





--
Les Hilliard & Nikki the Super Shih-Tzu

Urbanbike wrote:

Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy. He
is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to deal with
this issue the first time around.

I don't have experience with Rottweilers specifically, but I do have
a breed known for its "dominance," potential brattiness and taking-
over issues, and have raised a number of puppies.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries to
mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

Good. It sounds as though you're on the right track with the puppy
biting.


The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him for
something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up with
his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to see if
he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This causes him
to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just spoiled
brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the couch or my
leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by say
NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I leave the
room?

My way of dealing with this is to avoid the issue. I feel that on the
whole it is counterproductive to "discipline" a puppy at this age. In
general I try to avoid "contention" of any kind. I do this by
manipulating the situation so that either the unwanted behavior doesn't
occur, or I am in position to deal with it decisively.

If I sit on the floor, my puppies will jump up on me, and pushing them
off will accomplish nothing. I don't sit on the floor with puppies at
large. I stand up. I bend over to pet them, pick them up to pet them,
scoop them up with one hand under their chest, their hind feet still on
the floor, and pet them. I withhold petting/attention if they put their
paws on me.

My suggestion for the couch is similar. If you don't have a good solution

that works in the situation, avoid the situation. You might sit in a
chair,
pick your puppy up, and hold him on your lap. When you are finished,
you could either crate him, or give him the option of playing *without*
trying to get on the couch, by crating him the moment he starts to jump
up. No admonishment, no fanfare, just a quick trip to the crate.

Reminding you again that I do not have Rottweilers, I would consider
the behavior you describe normal and acceptable in a puppy. They're
oriented to have a playful response. In general, they don't take "pushing

away" as communicating that they should get away--they take it more
as a tease: "come and get me!"

I find that if I don't create the circumstances for repetition of
unwanted puppy behavior, it falls away without need for punishment
as the puppy grows beyond that stage.


I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or toy,
but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a game or
treat for his naughtiness.


I doubt he has the sophistication to comprehend his behavior as
"naughtiness." If you allow it to be repeated often enough, and
inadvertently reward it, it could continue beyond this developmental
stage and be a problem. If you take a few common-sense measures
to avoid reinforcing it, I think you'll find your puppy outgrows it
without any struggle or contentiousness.

Amy Dahl

Hi again,

Thank you all so much for your responses. I see now what you mean
about the crate. I'll simply pick him up and put him in his crate with
a toy (we have some toys specifically meant to be soaked and frozen,
and no shortage of PB).

Avoiding the situation altogether is a good suggestion. I love to be
down on the floor with him, but you may be right.

I'll also forward the this link to my fiancé so she can see it.

Thanks again.

"diddy" wrote in message
...
in
Well stated. On the mark

Diddy , please could you snip the posts a bit. Thanks
Alison

"Urbanbike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning our 9 week-old Rottweiler puppy. He
is our second Rottweiler, but I can't remember if we had to deal with
this issue the first time around.

Most of the time, Meeko is a gentle, playful pup. He still tries to
mouth and nip, but it is decreasing.

The issue I have is that sometimes when we try to discipline him for
something, he goes nuts, barks, and tries to nip at the item in
question:

Two examples.

1) I am sitting on the couch and he wants to get up. He jumps up with
his front paws. I say NO!, OFF! I give him a quick second to see if
he will respond, and when he doesn't, I push him down. This causes him
to become incensed (not agressive, in my opinion, just spoiled
brat-like). He will bark, keep jumping up, and nip at the couch or my
leg.

2) Same idea as above, just with trying to jump up on me while I am
doing something on the floor.

My question is, should I try to control the "testing craziness" by say
NO! and putting him on his back until he calms, or should I leave the
room?

I thought perhaps that that I could distract him with a treat or toy,
but I am worried that in his eyes, he has won and gotten a game or
treat for his naughtiness.

Thanks!
==========
You are doing the right thing in signing this pup up for obedience lessons.
You will most likely have to keep the dog in the class for up to a year.
Rottweiler pups are very difficult to handle. They get into everything and
require a lot of patience. This breed does not fully mature until four or
five years of age. This is my very favorite breed of dog. My Rottweiler is
a female and is approximately four years old. I adopted her from a
Rottweiler rescue group two years ago. This is also my second Rottweiler.
Was your first Rottie a pup when you got it? I just think they are the
best. I prefer to get the older Rottweilers, rather than the pups for the
above reasons. But, lessons starting at a young age and continuing through
for about a year are very important, if you hope to have control over the
dog as it grows and develops into a powerhouse of a dog. When looking to
adopt a new Rottweiler I looked at a couple of large males, that were not
trained, and those dogs just walked me around wherever they wanted to go. I
had no control over them, and both of these dogs were good natured dogs;
good thing. So, you see why it so important that they be trained early. I
am not sure this would work, but as far as jumping up on you, maybe you
could try putting a leash on the pup and when he starts to jump on you or
the furniture while holding the end of the leash step on the leash to pull
him down and give the command "off". This was a method someone taught me to
train the dog to go to the down position, which I thought was a great idea.
But in your case you are not going for the down position just the off
position; he does not have to lie down. I suppose if you are sitting, you
could just grab the leash and pull it down. When I first got my dog, I was
told to tie a leash around my waist and wherever I went the dog went. It
was a good way to teach the dog what she could do and not do by keeping an
eye on her all the time, while she acclimated herself to the household, and
of course keeping an eye that she did not mess in the house, which never did
happen. I only did that for a couple of days, though. It's was not much
fun.
I would never reward the dog with a treat when you give a command of
obedience. The command is something that the dog should do because it is
expected of him and because you told him to do it. He should do it out of
respect for you; not for a treat. I give my dog treats, but not after I
give the dog a command. Keep us informed how you make out with your new
Rottie.

In article . net,
pfoley wrote:
I would never reward the dog with a treat when you give a command of
obedience.

Did Cesar (Hail, Cesar!) teach you that? And what bearing
does it have on the poster's saying that she's thought of
giving the dog a treat to distract it from misbehaving?
Does *learning* fit anywhere into your worldview?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

The Free Enterprise Action Fund, a GOP mutual fund, is
underperforming the S&P 500 by about 40%.

Melinda Shore wrote:

Does *learning* fit anywhere into your worldview?

In The Pfoley's worldview, learning is evil, just like white space.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)