In article ,
sam owens wrote:
Scuse me, but you're not scaring me and I'm not doing anything wrong
for my dogs health. He couldn't have made it this far if I was as
incompetent as I think you think I am.

I knew someone who put his dog on a homemade vegetarian
diet. She was apparently doing just fine right up until the
time she lost her eyesight.

Might want to consider having bloodwork done to find out
more about how he's really doing, and it can provide some
specific dietary guidance.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

The Milton Friedman Choir:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...47019713273360

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:25:19 GMT, "buglady"
wrote:

"Paula" wrote in message
.. .
What you are feeding so far is not
sufficient for his nutritional needs. Perhaps he got this far by
eating kibble that is formulated for balanced nutrition but will not
get as far now that you have decided to feed what you are feeding.
........there is some calcium in veges as long as they're cooked or
pulped/blended, if you choose the right ones. You can feed an unbalanced
diet for at least 90 days with no harm. Some of the vet speciality diets
are severely unbalanced. A true elimination diet for allergies is not
balanced either.

I understand that. But he is feeding the dog ground steak, carrots
and peas, none of which are good calcium sources nor do they address
other nutritional needs his dog has. I wouldn't say that 90 days on a
bad diet can happen with no harm, though perhaps no irreversible or
serious harm, depending on how unbalanced it is. But this guy sounds
like he isn't going to do anything differently in 90 days than he is
doing now given that he thinks the experts on raw feeding are clueless
but he has it all down.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
Might want to consider having bloodwork done to find out
more about how he's really doing, and it can provide some
specific dietary guidance.

.......There aren't many blood tests that reveal dietary information. Unless
a dog is frankly starving, in which case blood values may be all over the
map. There are no blood tests that can tell you if you're feeding enough
calcium.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

In article . net,
buglady wrote:
......There aren't many blood tests that reveal dietary information. Unless
a dog is frankly starving, in which case blood values may be all over the
map. There are no blood tests that can tell you if you're feeding enough
calcium.

No, there aren't, but they can certainly tell if the dog is
anemic and if there are other problems that may be
indicative of dietary/nutritional insufficiencies.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

The Milton Friedman Choir:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...47019713273360

sam owens wrote:

Scuse me, but you're not scaring me and I'm not doing anything wrong
for my dogs health.

How on earth could you possibly know?

He couldn't have made it this far if I was as
incompetent as I think you think I am.

And how "far" would that be? You haven't even indicated how long
your dog has been on this "diet," so this is meaningless.

I wouldn't ask anyone to join but would let people make their own
choice after presenting an alternative.

That doesn't even make sense.

In any event, what was your point in posting here?

I don't like your tone. I don't sugar coat things but I don't wrap
them in elitism/snobbism as you do..

It seems to me that embracing the opposite of elitism, whatever that
might be, is not exactly a well thought out plan, either.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On 20 Nov 2006 10:01:14 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article . net,
buglady wrote:
......There aren't many blood tests that reveal dietary information. Unless
a dog is frankly starving, in which case blood values may be all over the
map. There are no blood tests that can tell you if you're feeding enough
calcium.

No, there aren't, but they can certainly tell if the dog is
anemic and if there are other problems that may be
indicative of dietary/nutritional insufficiencies.

They can also tell you whether the dog's blood calcium level is
normal. If it's low, the dog's diet can be supplemented.

Mustang Sally

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
...
They can also tell you whether the dog's blood calcium level is
normal. If it's low, the dog's diet can be supplemented.

..........Unfortunately not Sally. Blood calcium is regulated by hormones
and the body will maintain stasis by taking calcium out of the bones if
there's not enough dietary calcium available. If a blood calcium is wonky,
it's usually the result of a disease process. Probably the only time calcium
level in the blood has anything to do with food is in the nursing bitch.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2190

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:08 GMT, "buglady"
wrote:


"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
.. .
They can also tell you whether the dog's blood calcium level is
normal. If it's low, the dog's diet can be supplemented.

.........Unfortunately not Sally. Blood calcium is regulated by hormones
and the body will maintain stasis by taking calcium out of the bones if
there's not enough dietary calcium available. If a blood calcium is wonky,
it's usually the result of a disease process. Probably the only time calcium
level in the blood has anything to do with food is in the nursing bitch.

That's why you supplement with calcium, to keep the body from taking
caclium from the bones. I'm not you, buglady, but I'm not a medical,
veterinary or canine moron either. When I had my second thyroidectomy
for thyroid cancer, my parathyroid glands, which are responsible for
producing calcium in people, were damaged, and my blood calcium level
dropped. I was on fairly high doses of calcium supplements until the
parathyroids kicked back in, and the supplements had the effect of
raising the blood calcium level. I'm currently post-menopausal, and
taking both calcium supplements and Actonel. Just recently my
endocrinologist did a blood calcium level. The article you quoted
suggests that dogs and people are not completely different when it
comes to calcium.

In any event, the OP needs to do some research, reading, or talking to
other people to ensure that his homemade diet is sufficient in
nutrients, including vitamins and minerals.

Mustang Sally

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message
...
When I had my second thyroidectomy
for thyroid cancer, my parathyroid glands, which are responsible for
producing calcium in people, were damaged, and my blood calcium level
dropped. I was on fairly high doses of calcium supplements until the
parathyroids kicked back in, and the supplements had the effect of
raising the blood calcium level

...........I don't think I said anything different really. If you took your
dog to a vet and the blood calcium was low they would not be thinking you
were feeding him wrong, they'd be looking for a disease process. That's
all I meant.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

First, I appologize profusely for the cross post, but without knowing where
this was originally posted to, I don't want to cut down the cross posts...
Next an appology for replying to Jerry, I mostly just ignore/filter him, but
occaisionally
HIP DYSPLASIA simply is a lack of VITAMIN C in your
dogs diet.

Interesting comment. Do you have a mechanism of action to back it up? I
suppose isn't Vitamin C involved in Collagen synthesis (or am I thinking of
another vitamin?) I have some serious doubts here, but as always, my ears
are open.

Recent research from Purdue SEZ that ascorbic acid added
to dog food INCREASES the chances of GVD (bloat, gastric
torsion) by 320%.

Here's the RESEARCH article from Purdue:
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm


Did you actually read this article before quoting? Or are you just pulling
articles from thin air? The article you posted doesn't even mention ascorbic
acid, it mentions citric acid (an entirely chemically distinct beast). It is
however an interesting article, and probably worth reading in general,
regardless of the irrelevance to the current topic. Basically what it talks
about are what increases the risk of bloat. The piece about citric acid was
saying that if you moisten your dog's hard kibble, and that kibble contains
citric acid, you'll increase the risk of bloat by 320%.


Dale