I took both dogs on our first neighborhood walk tonight. I know it's not
ideal to walk them together, but I'm simply not going to have time to
adequately exercise them seperately. So anyway, HOLY CRAP. It's a good
thing I have a sense of humor! I was sooooo grateful the streets weren't
iced up because I got dragged for a mile (my arms couldn't take anymore
beyond that). Roxy has gotten really good about not pulling, but Briar is
a very strong boy who doesn't seem to mind choking... I have been using a
Martingale collar on all of our walks so far, but he is completely
oblivious to it. I tried stopping short when he pulls, but honestly, we'd
never get more than a few yards over the course of an hour! So I ended up
running with them hoping to wear him out, but he STILL kept pulling. My
biceps are worked!

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?

http://tinyurl.com/y2nstl

--
Lynne


"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives
with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 19:33:06 -0600, Lynne
wrote:

I took both dogs on our first neighborhood walk tonight. I know it's not
ideal to walk them together, but I'm simply not going to have time to
adequately exercise them seperately. So anyway, HOLY CRAP. It's a good
thing I have a sense of humor!

You know I'm just trying to help you out, right? So please don't take
this the wrong way. It concerns me that you seem to keep doing things
that you know are bad ideas but do anyway. It has worked out okay so
far, but pushing your dog when it came to resource guarding and now
with walking both together on the first walk around the
neighborhood... That's a lot of not good ideas for as little time as
you've had Briar. It's far better not to do it that way. You have
plenty of time to see how far he goes in resource guarding and you
have plenty of time to get him used to walking. If you don't have
time to walk them separately, that's fine, but picking the very first
walk to do it together wasn't necessary or smart. Take him out alone
until you see how he walks on a leash and how he reacts to a brand new
neighborhood he wants to explore. You could have been hurt and you
could also have lost both dogs. It is so easy for one to get away if
he's not good on leash and is strong enough to pull away and also
cause you to let go of the other one struggling to keep hold of or run
after the one that got away. Briar doesn't know your neighborhood and
may not find his way back.

It seems to me that you are trying to start off in the way that you
want things to go long term. That's not bad in and of itself and in
many ways can be a good way to get started. But in other ways, it is
going to buy you trouble and heartache and can set up both dogs for
failures that needn't have occurred. You want the beginning to be a
time of successes for all of your sakes and to set the stage for how
all of you will live together. So please get your daughter to walk
Roxy while you walk Briar no matter what collar you end up getting.
You can them separately yourself if no one is available to help you
walk both at the same time. But don't walk them both together until
after you have the pulling under control.

And when the next situation comes up where you think it might not be a
good idea but you feel you should do it anyway so you can figure it
all out now instead of later or whatever, please don't. It won't help
you or your dogs. Take a deep breath and let yourself ease into two
dog ownership. Let Briar ease into living in your home and in a two
dog family. Let Roxy ease into living in a two dog household with a
dog who hasn't been raised with your rules. Let your daughter ease in
to having two dogs around the house. No one is going to benefit from
rushing things. Everyone will be happier if you find ways to work it
out slowly instead of rushing things and taking unnecessary risks.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

on Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:57:20 GMT, Paula
wrote:

You know I'm just trying to help you out, right? So please don't take
this the wrong way.

Of course, and I greatly appreciate all of your help, Paula (you don't
even have to sugar coat things with me. Honest!).

It concerns me that you seem to keep doing things
that you know are bad ideas but do anyway.

That was always an obervation in retrospect... that lovely 20/20
hindsite.

snip excellent, thoughtful advice

Everyone will be happier if you find ways to work it
out slowly instead of rushing things and taking unnecessary risks.

Paula, thank you. You are absolutely right. I tend to be a square
peg/round hole type person and I needed the reality checks.

--
Lynne


"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our
lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb

Lynne wrote:

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?

http://tinyurl.com/y2nstl

I have found those to be worse than useless. Elliott was able to
*easily* pull me off my feet and drag me down the sidewalk while
wearing one. Aside from the fact that they don't seem to work very
well, they are not any kind of training tool. I think a prong
collar plus training is going to be much more effective at solving
your problem in both the sort term and long term.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Paula wrote:
If you don't have
time to walk them separately, that's fine, but picking the very first
walk to do it together wasn't necessary or smart.

That's a good point. If time is an issue, then what I'd do is walk
each dog on alternate days until the new dog gets settled and has
better leash manners. Walking one puller is dangerous enough.
Walking a puller with another dog is just asking for trouble.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?
============
I tried using one of these halters on my Rottie once, but I found that the
narrow strap that ran under her underarm caused chafing and a raw spot, so
I stopped using it. I think it was a different brand though, but that one
looks like it has a similar narrow cord running under the stomach near the
dog's armpit..

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:12:16 -0500, shelly
wrote:

Lynne wrote:

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?

http://tinyurl.com/y2nstl

I have found those to be worse than useless. Elliott was able to
*easily* pull me off my feet and drag me down the sidewalk while
wearing one. Aside from the fact that they don't seem to work very
well, they are not any kind of training tool. I think a prong
collar plus training is going to be much more effective at solving
your problem in both the sort term and long term.

Ditto. We used one of those on our first Dal, and all it did was to
irritate the heck out of her 'armpits'.

Mustang Sally

Lynne wrote:
I took both dogs on our first neighborhood walk tonight. I know it's not
ideal to walk them together, but I'm simply not going to have time to
adequately exercise them seperately. So anyway, HOLY CRAP. It's a good
thing I have a sense of humor! I was sooooo grateful the streets weren't
iced up because I got dragged for a mile (my arms couldn't take anymore
beyond that). Roxy has gotten really good about not pulling, but Briar is
a very strong boy who doesn't seem to mind choking... I have been using a
Martingale collar on all of our walks so far, but he is completely
oblivious to it. I tried stopping short when he pulls, but honestly, we'd
never get more than a few yards over the course of an hour! So I ended up
running with them hoping to wear him out, but he STILL kept pulling. My
biceps are worked!

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?

http://tinyurl.com/y2nstl

--
This doesn't really answer your question about the harness, but what
you need to do is to teach this dog NOT to pull you. That's more than a
little difficult to do when you are trying to walk two dogs, and also
if you have a goal of going a certain distance. New rule for Briar. No
forward motion if the leash is tight. Ever. Pulling is a learned
behavior. Dogs pull because we go with them when they do (frequently,
we are also pulling, so making it impossible for them to learn to walk
on a loose leash) Stuff like haltis, prongs, sporn harnesses are
management tools. They don't teach a dog not to pull. Many dogs will
eventually learn to pull through them. So, forget about going for long
walks with him until you've been able to engage his brain and teach him
to be with you. BroomSandy

Lynne wrote:
on Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:57:20 GMT, Paula
wrote:

You know I'm just trying to help you out, right? So please don't take
this the wrong way.

Of course, and I greatly appreciate all of your help, Paula (you don't
even have to sugar coat things with me. Honest!).

It concerns me that you seem to keep doing things
that you know are bad ideas but do anyway.

That was always an obervation in retrospect... that lovely 20/20
hindsite.


Ah, but see. There is a way around that. Be proactive. Think about
these things before you do them, and what dangers they might contain
for you and your dog. Also, think ahead of time about what you want
your dog to learn, and what things you are actually teaching him. Set
things up to provide a learning experience. What he learned on your
walk was that the way to get the person to go really fast is to pull
like a power boat. Any time we are with our dogs, we are training them.
You can either do it mindfully or you can let the dog call the shots
and learn stuff you really don't like. It sounds to me like there's not
much thought going into providing Briar with the information you want
him to have BroomSandy.

"Lynne" wrote in message:

I went to look at pinch collars and saw this Sporn halter. I thought I'd
ask here before deciding to try it (or not). So what do you all think of
this "halter"? Good, bad, stupid?

Back in the days, when we first got Khan, he was a puller. So, we were
using the prong, and it was working fine. One day, while out walking, we
ran into someone who lives across the street, who believes *strongly* that
the prong is eevil, and gave me a Sporn to try on him. He pulled right
through it. I did end up using it however, *after* he was leash trained,
and no longer pulled, because I like the idea of harnesses better than
collars (personal bias), and because this one was narrow, it didn't mat his
fur.

Suja