In article ,
Lynne wrote:
I meant to also say that they probably don't have any other impacted
products (though I'd still avoid wheat gluten).

Well, okay, but last year it was aflatoxin in the corn
Diamond was using, etc. There's always going to be
something. Is the per-dog incidence of salmonella or other
food poisonings higher among BARF-fed dogs than various
toxicities are with dogs on commercial foods? I have
absolutely no idea. Single-sourcing means that when
something goes wrong it affects a lot more people and dogs,
but I'm not sure the aggregate risk goes up.

I've been trying to figure out what this all means for
food-buying behavior. Obviously you don't buy the affected
products, but I don't, anyway. Is it safer to buy from a
smaller manufacturer like Eagle Pack than it is from a
humungo producer like Purina? I tend to think the risk is
about the same but I really don't know.

--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle

on Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:02:49 GMT, Dale Atkin
wrote:

Things tend to go in phases in veterinary practice. You'll go months
without seeing a case of x, and then all of a sudden 5 will walk
through your door. Its not surprising that at least some of the vets
were experiencing an upturn in cases of renal failure. Looking back
its easy to 'tie' it to the problems we see now, but is it? Do they
have any data as far as what food these dogs/cats were eating?

I'm sure the owners know what they were eating. Are you a lawyer for
Menu Foods?

Now that the FDA has determined that the tainted wheat gluten contains
melamine, it can potentially be used as a marker to determine if animals
have consumed the affected food. Unfortunately, there is no way of
looking for malamine in animals who have already died and been cremated
or buried (maybe?). I also wonder how long it is excreted in the urine
and present in tissue and therefore just how useful of a marker it will
be for animals who were sick and are recovering and who are no longer
eating the poison food...

As an aside, from everything I have read, melamine probably is NOT the
cause of the kidney problems. If that's true, there's got to be
something else, yet to be identified.

I'm not saying its not caused by the food, but just trying to point
out that there are other possibilities.

Of course there are other possibilities, but the reports I read about
"dramatic increases in kidney failure" in young animals are pretty
friggen suspicious... It's not like any of those cases are going to be
able to be tied to the food anyway, so what's your point?

I feel horrible for people whose pets died suddenly from renal failure
and will never know if it's because of the food they fed them.

--
Lynne

on Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:13:11 GMT, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

Well, okay, but last year it was aflatoxin in the corn
Diamond was using, etc. There's always going to be
something. Is the per-dog incidence of salmonella or other
food poisonings higher among BARF-fed dogs than various
toxicities are with dogs on commercial foods? I have
absolutely no idea. Single-sourcing means that when
something goes wrong it affects a lot more people and dogs,
but I'm not sure the aggregate risk goes up.

I've been trying to figure out what this all means for
food-buying behavior. Obviously you don't buy the affected
products, but I don't, anyway. Is it safer to buy from a
smaller manufacturer like Eagle Pack than it is from a
humungo producer like Purina? I tend to think the risk is
about the same but I really don't know.

Smaller manufacturers have to buy their ingredients somewhere...

I honestly don't know what to think about any of this anymore. There are
just too many unknowns at this point about who bought what from whom,
what foods it went into, where those foods were distributed, and what's
going to change after this is all figured out.

--
Lynne

In article ,
Lynne wrote:
Smaller manufacturers have to buy their ingredients somewhere...

Right, exactly. I have no idea where any of the
manufacturers I buy from get their ingredients and I don't
think it would help much if I did. "Organic" means a bunch
of things but it definitely doesn't mean "no poisons."

There are
just too many unknowns at this point about who bought what from whom,
what foods it went into, where those foods were distributed, and what's
going to change after this is all figured out.

Right. What I've been trying to figure out is if there's
some way for me to change my behavior to reduce the risk,
and I really don't think there is. I like to buy organic
and local because I think it's less wasteful and because I
like to support sustainable whatevers, but even if someone
local were producing the kind of stuff I want to feed my
dogs I don't think that it would really be any safer. I
think single-sourcing is big-picture bad but I can't say
that I think that it means that any individual bag of food
is going to be less safe.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle

You are right about that my vet has been swamped with people bringing pets
in to be tested. Mine included, luckily my two were ok their lab panels
came back fine.

Celeste

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

God only knows. But I feel very good about Purina's dry products.


Why?


I feed Cubbe Purina adult formula chow. I buy it in the 40# bag, and I
have only the one 50# dog so it lasts several months. I haven't needed
to buy dogfood since the recall. Since that particular bag didn't make
her sick before the news story, I'm assuming it won't make her sick
afterwards. But when I run out of that bag, I'll be worried about
buying another.


Why aren't we worried about Purina products? Is there any reason to
believe they use only U.S. products and production?


--Lia

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 20:04:54 -0400, Julia Altshuler
wrote:

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

God only knows. But I feel very good about Purina's dry products.

Why?

Two reasons, mostly. One, I've had nothing but great experience with
their feed products (going back 40+ years), especially Pro-Plan. Two,
Purina is not the kind of company (i.e., it's a very conscientious
company) that would put a few cents more profit ahead of the welfare
of dogs and the reputation of their company. They've just got too much
goodwill invested in the dog community. They're not a stupid, greedy
company.

Originally, they were a St. Louis company (part of Ralston Purina)
before being sold to Nestles), and I know more than a few of their
executives and top managers. Their technology center in Gray's Summit
(Purina Farms) is still not far from my place (although its moving to
St. Joseph later this year). Nestles was smart enough to retain
almost all of the old management team. And I know how hard they work
at testing and developing their feed products; I've visited one of
their plants, etc. They're just good folks, in my opinion.

So I put a lot of stock in things like that. I suppose I could be
dead wrong about them, but they've never, ever given me a reason not
to trust them.

I feed Cubbe Purina adult formula chow. I buy it in the 40# bag, and I
have only the one 50# dog so it lasts several months. I haven't needed
to buy dogfood since the recall. Since that particular bag didn't make
her sick before the news story, I'm assuming it won't make her sick
afterwards. But when I run out of that bag, I'll be worried about
buying another.

Why???

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

A liberal stands up to the Surrender Lobby!
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007212.htm
Not everyone in Europe is a stupid as Rosie O'Donnell:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...474636,00.html
Your United Nations at work!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEw0lZ3k_Y&eurl=
A Moronocy of Dunces!
http://www.julescrittenden.com/2007/...ocy-of-dunces/
How modern liberals think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c&eurl=
Gore's Global Warming Religion:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19927
Researchers Question Validity Of A 'Global Temperature':
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0315101129.htm
Liberal eco-preeners: Do as we say, not as we do!
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...599714,00.html
Danish scientist: Global warming is a myth.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science...-012154-7403r/
Scientists threatened with death for 'climate denial'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ngreen211.xml
The Great Global Warming Swindle - the video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...global+warming

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

Why?


Because of the bad press every pet food company has gotten in this
recall. So far, it seems like they all buy the same ingredients from
the same places. By the time this bag is gone, I may be over my paranoia.


--Lia

In article ,
Julia Altshuler wrote:
Because of the bad press every pet food company has gotten in this
recall.

"Every" pet food company?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you can't say it clearly, you don't understand it yourself -- John Searle

on Sun, 01 Apr 2007 00:04:54 GMT, Julia Altshuler
wrote:

Why?

I feed Cubbe Purina adult formula chow. I buy it in the 40# bag, and I
have only the one 50# dog so it lasts several months. I haven't needed
to buy dogfood since the recall. Since that particular bag didn't make
her sick before the news story, I'm assuming it won't make her sick
afterwards. But when I run out of that bag, I'll be worried about
buying another.


Why aren't we worried about Purina products? Is there any reason to
believe they use only U.S. products and production?

No. They don't only use US products. Purina used the same supplier as
Menu Foods for wheat gluten in Alpo (see their website). The reason I
think you can feel comfortable with Purina at this point--for this recent
problem--is because Purina now knows who the supplier of the bad wheat
gluten is and they recalled the Alpo today. *I am speculating* that they
would have had additional recalls today if they had used the bad product
in any other foods.

However, I still think it would be prudent to discontinue the use of any
foods (or treats) containing wheat gluten, from any manufacturer, until
the scope of this thing is better understood.

--
Lynne