elegy wrote:

then i think, i could go back to raw, but that's no guarantee, either,
because the only way i can afford to feed raw is to purchase from big
grocery store chains.

And if your chains are like mine, the less expensive meats that
they sell have been "enhanced" with injections of a solution
(containing salt and heaven knows what else) to keep it moist ...
and boost the weight.

Furpaw

--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.

Lynne wrote:
on Sat, 31 Mar 2007 22:02:49 GMT, Dale Atkin
wrote:

Things tend to go in phases in veterinary practice. You'll go months
without seeing a case of x, and then all of a sudden 5 will walk
through your door. Its not surprising that at least some of the vets
were experiencing an upturn in cases of renal failure. Looking back
its easy to 'tie' it to the problems we see now, but is it? Do they
have any data as far as what food these dogs/cats were eating?

I'm sure the owners know what they were eating.

You'd be surprised. That's one of the standard questions clients get at
their pets annual health review at the clinic I'm at. Most can't answer
the specific formulation their pet is on. Then there are the multitude
of pets who aren't on a particular diet for more than a bag at a time.
One week its this food, next week its another. My neighbor feeds her dog
whatever is cheapest at Superstore.
My parents feed our cat what ever wet food they pick up, on a package by
package basis (I only feed the cat one brand, and try to discourage
mucking with his diet, but he's not my cat...). I doubt anyone could
name the brand of wet food he ate last week.

If his kidneys were to give out though, I'm sure I'd look over the list
and see a brand that looks familiar, and probably be able to convince
myself that that was the food he was getting.

Are you a lawyer for
Menu Foods?


No, I'm just sitting here watching these threads, and I'm seeing very
few real *FACTS* going around, and a lot of speculation, and people
getting more and more worried. So much so that people are throwing out
any and all pet foods in their house containing wheat gluten. (Has it
even been definitively tied to the wheat gluten yet? I was under the
impression that they weren't able to confirm its presence in the raw
materials yet?)

Now that the FDA has determined that the tainted wheat gluten contains
melamine, it can potentially be used as a marker to determine if animals
have consumed the affected food. Unfortunately, there is no way of
looking for malamine in animals who have already died and been cremated
or buried (maybe?). I also wonder how long it is excreted in the urine
and present in tissue and therefore just how useful of a marker it will
be for animals who were sick and are recovering and who are no longer
eating the poison food...

I'm curious, do we know that other foods have been shown *not* to
contain melamine? I only ask as it seems like a rather easy foreign
contaminant for a food to have.


As an aside, from everything I have read, melamine probably is NOT the
cause of the kidney problems. If that's true, there's got to be
something else, yet to be identified.

I'm not saying its not caused by the food, but just trying to point
out that there are other possibilities.

Of course there are other possibilities, but the reports I read about
"dramatic increases in kidney failure" in young animals are pretty
friggen suspicious... It's not like any of those cases are going to be
able to be tied to the food anyway, so what's your point?

My point is that the numbers *may* not be as bad as some groups are
making them out to be. There are many things which would cause them to
look worse than they really are, and there are definitely people
interested in making them look as bad as possible.



I feel horrible for people whose pets died suddenly from renal failure
and will never know if it's because of the food they fed them.


So do I.

Dale

on Sun, 01 Apr 2007 04:17:00 GMT, Dale Atkin wrote:

snip

No, I'm just sitting here watching these threads, and I'm seeing very
few real *FACTS* going around, and a lot of speculation, and people
getting more and more worried.

snip

I started to reply point-by-point to your post, but it's clear to me by the
questions you are asking that you've done no research into this issue. If
you are interested in *FACTS*, as you say, then you should read something
other than Usenet. As a start, check out some of the links that are being
posted on the health group by buglady. She's been serving up the most
current *FACTS* since the beginning of this mess.

--
Lynne

Rocky wrote:
elegy said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:


i do use innova's food, and their canned
products are manufactured by menu foods. they weren't
affected because they don't use wheat gluten, but who's to
say they wouldn't have been if it had been another
ingredient.


What I posted the other day (Naturapets' probably canned
response to my question) indicates that they exercise somewhat
more oversight than others.


According to the video on their website, They've instituted new quality
control--as in a person on-site at the Menu Foods plant in SD at all
times to ensure quality. And their BOD just voted that they will either
acquire their own canning plant or build one, so they can exercise more
quality control.

Robin Nuttall wrote in
news:cDOPh.23778$oV.18654@attbi_s21:

According to the video on their website, They've instituted new
quality control--as in a person on-site at the Menu Foods plant
in SD at all times to ensure quality. And their BOD just voted
that they will either acquire their own canning plant or build
one, so they can exercise more quality control.

That's encouraging, and a good example of what people want to hear
from their pet food company. Though what that *means* is sort of
nebulous. Could an on-site inspector have prevented this whole
mess in the first place?

I'm conflicted about what to do next. Harriet is on toward the end
of her food. I don't think it's going to be added to the list of
suspect foods, because it's kibble and it has no wheat of any sort
in it. But, still, I'm concerned, and am seriously considering
moving back to Canidae or California Natural.

(Right now, I'm waiting until it's a decent hour to call a night
owl friend of mine and inform her of the Del Monte recall. She
feeds her cats those damned Pounce treats, and I'd hate it if one
of them got sick. I'm giving her until 11am, then I'm calling and
waking her lazy ass up.)

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

I would prefer not to.
-- Bartleby the Scrivener

In article ,
Shelly wrote:


I'm conflicted about what to do next. Harriet is on toward the end
of her food. I don't think it's going to be added to the list of
suspect foods, because it's kibble and it has no wheat of any sort
in it. But, still, I'm concerned, and am seriously considering
moving back to Canidae or California Natural.

Food choices seem to have never been more important, eh? I had been
feeding BRAVO raw to all 3 dogs, but I'm going broke feeding it. I
decided to try them all on Evo and see how it goes. So far, so good,
but I have to watch Lucy's waistline. She'll go back on raw if she
doesn't handle the Evo well.

The cats eat canned Wellness and Solid Gold, and that appears to be fine
for now. They also get some dry Evo. They were getting Trader Joe's
canned foods, but TJ's has pulled them for now, so I returned what I had.

The cats would prefer to eat roasted chicken every night, which often
seems like not such a bad idea - cost is good and they adore it,
especially Carey, who doesn't eat a lot otherwise - I think she could
down a whole chicken.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet Boss wrote in
:

The cats would prefer to eat roasted chicken every night, which
often seems like not such a bad idea - cost is good and they
adore it, especially Carey, who doesn't eat a lot otherwise - I
think she could down a whole chicken.

So would Pan, though she couldn't actually, you know, *chew* it up
or anything. She swears she could manage, though.

The little brat got up on the stove last night, while I was stir
frying some veggies, and tried to snag a pea pod out of the hot
pan! Brazen little ****. She nearly got away with it, too, right
under my nose. I don't know if she's lost her mind, or what, but
what on earth does she think she's going to do with a pea pod?
Lick it to death?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Color! What a deep and mysterious language, the language of dreams.
-- Paul Gauguin

In article ,
Shelly wrote:

I don't know if she's lost her mind, or what, but
what on earth does she think she's going to do with a pea pod?
Lick it to death?

cats don't think. HTH.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 21:18:45 -0400, Julia Altshuler
wrote:

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

Why?


Because of the bad press every pet food company has gotten in this
recall. So far, it seems like they all buy the same ingredients from
the same places. By the time this bag is gone, I may be over my paranoia.

I don't know what you mean by "bad press." IMO, Purina's press has
been pretty good overall. They've certainly been open and
forthcoming.

Plus, I'm much more distrustful of the press than I am of Purina.

And if I had to choose between believing the FDA or believing Purina,
I'd believe Purina.

Tip: Paranoia never helps.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

A liberal stands up to the Surrender Lobby!
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007212.htm
Not everyone in Europe is a stupid as Rosie O'Donnell:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...474636,00.html
Your United Nations at work!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEw0lZ3k_Y&eurl=
A Moronocy of Dunces!
http://www.julescrittenden.com/2007/...ocy-of-dunces/
How modern liberals think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c&eurl=
Gore's Global Warming Religion:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19927
Researchers Question Validity Of A 'Global Temperature':
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0315101129.htm
Liberal eco-preeners: Do as we say, not as we do!
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...599714,00.html
Danish scientist: Global warming is a myth.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science...-012154-7403r/
Scientists threatened with death for 'climate denial'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ngreen211.xml
The Great Global Warming Swindle - the video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...global+warming

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:41:02 -0500, Lynne
wrote:

on Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:19:07 GMT, Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:

Yeah, I've been focusing on Purina's dry products, because that's all
we use here.

This unnamed supplier of bad "stuff" from China is apparently a U.S.
company, so I'm sure that threats of litigation is behind the
non-release of its name - before all the test results are in.

Not to mention that the FDA is a pawn of big business...

I generally like big business. Write down on a piece of paper all the
good things that big business brings you. Now write down all the bad
things that big business brings you.

My hunch?

The former list will be quite a bit longer than the latter.

Who is next?

God only knows. But I feel very good about Purina's dry products.

I think you can at this point, since they already identified a non-Menu
Foods product in which they used wheat gluten from the supplier in
question.

I agree.

And "the supplier" is probably going to end up the main culprit in
this fiasco.

Yes, it could be something else altogether (although somewhat
unlikely), which is probably one reason the supplier's name is being
withheld until more testing can be done.

But "better safe than sorry" has always been one of my mottos.

Ditto here. Hence the pile of treats in the trash.

Tragic results for some aside, this episode should likely result in
higher standards, more testing, etc. for dog and cat foods generally.

Damn well better.

I don't know how it couldn't.

I just hope that we get to the bottom of this pretty soon.

Damn well better.

I'm sure we won't be satisfied until we do.

I know I won't.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

A liberal stands up to the Surrender Lobby!
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/007212.htm
Not everyone in Europe is a stupid as Rosie O'Donnell:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...474636,00.html
Your United Nations at work!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEw0lZ3k_Y&eurl=
A Moronocy of Dunces!
http://www.julescrittenden.com/2007/...ocy-of-dunces/
How modern liberals think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c&eurl=
Gore's Global Warming Religion:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19927
Researchers Question Validity Of A 'Global Temperature':
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0315101129.htm
Liberal eco-preeners: Do as we say, not as we do!
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...599714,00.html
Danish scientist: Global warming is a myth.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science...-012154-7403r/
Scientists threatened with death for 'climate denial'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ngreen211.xml
The Great Global Warming Swindle - the video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...global+warming