obDog: Rats moved into my kitchen a couple of weeks ago. I
won't use poison (duh) and so far the traps haven't worked,
so three nights ago I started leaving the bedroom door open
at night, leaving the dogs free to run around the house
while I'm sleeping^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Htrying to sleep. Three
mornings, three dead rats. I have awesome dogs.


I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome that
your dogs could help catch the rats. Maui chased a mouse once but didn't
get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it took a long
time to get a mouse. Next time we have that problem, I'll just have to
borrow some of your crew.

In article ,
MauiJNP wrote:
I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome that
your dogs could help catch the rats.

The final tally was 17 rats (!!!!). Crow is a serious,
focused, and somewhat humorless dog with an overdeveloped
sense of responsibility, and once she decided it was her job
to get rid of the rats she kind of went nuts about it (I
found her inside a kitchen cabinet at one point). If there
were any remaining rats, they left. Unfortunately I think
some moved back in while I was in Toronto but I have some
confidence that the dogs will take care of it if they have.
Sealing up openings in the house is on my lengthy, lengthy
"to do" list for the next few months.

Maui chased a mouse once but didn't
get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it took a long
time to get a mouse.

I had no luck with traps and obviously poison is out of the
question. Did the traps solve your problem completely?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

The important thing is to realize that the dog doesn't need or expect
16 hours of stiimulation every weekend. A twenty minute walk or five
minutes on the agility course in the backyard is nothing to be sneezed
at.

Even a half-an-hour of being tethered outside in the sun where he can
watch and listen and smell is more interesting that lying on my bed
waiting for me to finish futzing around on the computer.

You bet! While my dogs can enjoy and benefit from a full day off doing
"work", they can also benefit from some chuck-it in the yard, or just
changing up what we do, I wish more people realized that. A lot of
people seem to think it's "I don't have time for a ton of exercise, so I
won't bother with any at all". happens with JUST people too!



I always think I should be doing more with my dogs to keep them entertained
or exercised. But it is just like every other situation in my life. I
strive to do things with 110% of my time and energy and it just can't always
happen that way. I usually feel that no matter what I am doing, it's never
the best it can be but I think its human nature to feel like you could
always do things better (or at least my "normal"). For example, if I take
the dogs to the park for a hour, I think "we could have stayed longer". If
I take them outside for an hour I think "we should have went down to the
stream, that would have been better". If I take them down to the stream, I
think "I should do this everyday, that would be better". And right now, I
think I should be playing with them instead of writing this post (though in
my own defense to myself, they are resting because we were outside and down
at the stream earlier).

I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome that
your dogs could help catch the rats.

The final tally was 17 rats (!!!!).

WOW!

Crow is a serious,
focused, and somewhat humorless dog with an overdeveloped
sense of responsibility, and once she decided it was her job
to get rid of the rats she kind of went nuts about it (I
found her inside a kitchen cabinet at one point).


Wow, good girl, and yes, very serious!


Maui chased a mouse once but didn't
get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it took a
long
time to get a mouse.

I had no luck with traps and obviously poison is out of the
question. Did the traps solve your problem completely?


we did get one mouse and that does seem to be the end of the problem, at
least for now.

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...
Maui chased a mouse once but didn't
get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it took a
long
time to get a mouse.

I had no luck with traps and obviously poison is out of the
question. Did the traps solve your problem completely?


we did get one mouse and that does seem to be the end of the problem, at
least for now.

Traps work for deer mice. Poison doesn't work for deer mice at all. They
just cart it away and you find it hidden all over your house. So that's
*really* not a good idea. Once in a while you get a deer mouse who,
probably because of a close call with a trap, gets trap-wise and is more
difficult to catch. But mostly traps work pretty well.

Judy

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...
I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome that
your dogs could help catch the rats. Maui chased a mouse once but didn't
get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it took a
long time to get a mouse. Next time we have that problem, I'll just have
to borrow some of your crew.

We had beagles who killed rats. One in particular seemed to enjoy hunting
them at the barn. She also would go out in the fields and mole hunt by the
hours.

We once lived in an apartment house that bordered on a junk yard. Sleeping
one night with the ground floor window open, we awoke to her watching the
window and growling softly. DH looked up just in time to see a rat hop up
on the sill and down into the bedroom. Dog went after rat - who ran under
the bed. I left bed and stood on the opposite side of the room. Rat ran
out from under the bed. Not to be anything less than completely humble, I
can report that I hold the world's record for the naked standing broad jump.
Landed in the middle of the bed. Dog grabbed the rat and vigorously shook
it. We had rat blood and guts to clean off the walls later. After which we
made a trip to the hardware store for a sliding screen for the window.

Once a dog learns the killing technique for a particular species, they can
be very efficient at it. It enables a small dog to handle much larger prey
than you would imagine. We had another beagle who killed both woodchucks
and cats - with equal abandon. Cats were always handled from the middle of
the back - the other approaches are sharp. He also could handle raccoons -
which was really amazing for a dog his size. And as a half-grown puppy he
once took off on a bear track - the dog had a real Napoleanic complex. That
beagle used the same technique that our previous schnauzer used on
woodchucks - go for the head and sink a fang down into the skull.

I haven't allowed my FIL to take these schnauzers out walking the fields
with him. I know what evil tricks he would teach them. They do make quick
work of rabbits, snakes and moles in the yard. There was also an
unfortunate woodchuck who couldn't find a large enough exit hole fast
enough. The dogs were williing but DH went out and helped in the kill -
didn't want any wounds on the dogs.

I think if Sassy discovered that the kitchen cupboards held mice that we
might as well take the doors off to give her full access. It would be
easier than having them rebuilt when she got done.

Judy

(Melinda Shore) wrote in
:

(I
found her inside a kitchen cabinet at one point).

Yet you call her humorless.

--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Max the pomeranian
& Rosalie the calico cat

"MauiJNP" wrote in
:

I always think I should be doing more with my dogs to keep them
entertained or exercised. But it is just like every other situation
in my life. I strive to do things with 110% of my time and energy and
it just can't always happen that way. I usually feel that no matter
what I am doing, it's never the best it can be but I think its human
nature to feel like you could always do things better (or at least my
"normal"). For example, if I take the dogs to the park for a hour, I
think "we could have stayed longer". If I take them outside for an
hour I think "we should have went down to the stream, that would have
been better". If I take them down to the stream, I think "I should do
this everyday, that would be better". And right now, I think I should
be playing with them instead of writing this post (though in my own
defense to myself, they are resting because we were outside and down
at the stream earlier).


While all dogs need and enjoy exercise, I think one of the joys of having
a toy dog is that they get a fair amount of exercise just trotting around
after you everywhere. Max gets tired on our walks, while Zoe gets decent
exercise and Queenie almost none (because my pace isn't fast enough for
her).

I think you might be flogging yourself needlessly. You are devoted to
your dogs and they seem to have a lot of outings. In fact, living with
you sounds like toy poodle heaven!

--
Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Max the pomeranian
& Rosalie the calico cat

On Wed, 09 May 2007 16:39:55 -0400, Judy wrote:

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...
I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome
that your dogs could help catch the rats. Maui chased a mouse once but
didn't get it. We had to set traps in very dog-safe places and then it
took a long time to get a mouse. Next time we have that problem, I'll
just have to borrow some of your crew.

We had beagles who killed rats. One in particular seemed to enjoy hunting
them at the barn. She also would go out in the fields and mole hunt by
the hours.

We had a "barn hunt" at the terrier trial. The rats were caged, so none
of them were hurt, but the dogs loved sniffing them out. (This was in
additional to the traditional go-to-ground courses.)

--
Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit!

On Wed, 09 May 2007 15:51:49 -0400, MauiJNP wrote:

I actually didn't read this original thread but WOW! That's awesome
that your dogs could help catch the rats.

The final tally was 17 rats (!!!!).

WOW!

Yep.

http://www.terrierman.com/ratwars.htm

My first Jack Russell was my brother's discarded, psychotic trouble-maker
named Eve.

Being a true working terrier, she was having a bit of trouble adjusting to
"captivity" in the suburbs of Baltimore. I had a farm in Pennsylvania, and
as a favor to my brother, I decided to give Eve a new home.

I remember not being impressed with the looks of this little ten pound
mongrelly animal that leaped out of the car. She appeared to be just
another spoiled city pet to me. My sister-in-law gave me a brief history
of the Jack Russell (fox bolter, rat killer, gun dog, etc.), along with a
squeak toy, dinner bowl, and a special bed. The history of the Jack
Russell and the animal I saw in front of me did not add up. I did not
think a dog this size could do any of the deeds that were ascribed to her.
But, having a rather large and rapidly expanding colony of rats on my
farm, I would not have long in seeing what she was made of. We took Eve
out to one of the feed storage sheds, which generally had rats crawling
about even in the daytime.

"Okay, you can let her loose here if she's not afraid to walk into the
shed," I said with a smirk.

Eve ambled into the shed and instantly her demeanor changed from a funny,
short-legged little dog into a very determined, vicious hunter. She ran
over to a board and tried to move it by picking it up with her teeth. The
fact that the board was about fifteen feet long did not deter her. I was
soon to find out there were no obstacles too large when it came to Eve's
pursuit of a rat. I helped her turn the board over, and she promptly slew
three rats that were resting there. And she did it with about the same
speed that it took me to say it. After killing the last rat, she went to
each victim and proceeded to break every bone in its body.

This became her trademark. After each kill she would go back and pulverize
each and every victim. How such a hatred of rats developed in her psyche
was hard to say, but I intended to put it to good use. I believe Eve had
found a home.

Now country people and city people have different ideas on how to best
care for a dog. My dogs were always kept in the barn while most city dogs
stayed in the house. Lo and behold, Eve not only made it to the mud room
on the back porch, but eventually ended up sharing my easy chair. I did,
however, throw away the squeaky toy as soon as my sister- in-law
disappeared down the lane.

To say that I had a lot of rats is probably being a little modest. It
would be more accurate to say the rats had pretty much taken over the
barn. A few examples will give some idea as to the extent of the problem.
Rats were consuming about eight hundred pounds of cattle feed a month.
Further, quite a bit of feed was contaminated with their droppings. Rats
had chewed their way into a duck pen that housed my daughter's 4-H project
and wiped out fifty baby ducks - mainly just biting into their heads and
then leaving them in a heap. They were constantly chewing holes in the
barn walls and undermining the barn floors with their maze of tunnels.

Then there was the fear factor. When I turned on the barn lights at 5:00
AM, hundreds of rats scurried back to their holes. This had to be seen to
be believed.I had tried to kill off a few of the scabious rodents in the
past but with little success. If you have never fought rats, then you have
no idea the intelligence this adversary possesses. I thought the poison I
had put out was working because I began to see a few dead rats around the
sheds. I promptly went to the store and bought most of their supply of rat
poison and put it in every nook and cranny I could find. The most amazing
thing started to happen. I was finding packets of poison either buried
under the hay or covered with rat urine and feces. Several of the adult
rats had been sickened by the poison, but survived and this was their way
of warning the rest of the colony. I was never successful with poisoning
after that.

My next strategy was old-fashioned rat traps. The springs on these suckers
provided enough torque to easily decapitate any rat unlucky enough to try
to get the bait. I gleefully baited the traps with peanut butter, which
rats cannot refuse. It's comparable to a Frenchman coming upon a plate of
"pat, de fois gras." It will be eaten. I carefully placed the baited traps
between the feed bags that evening fully expecting to be rewarded with
five headless rats the next morning. On the way to the barn the next day,
I stopped off at the feed room and found all five traps sprung, licked
clean, but not one dead rat. How they pulled off this stunt was baffling.
If one were to breathe hard on these traps, they sprang shut.

Rats 2 - Farmer 0.

Everything up to this point had failed. So it was with great anticipation
that I introduced Eve to the Wills View farm rat colony. The first morning
at the barn was the sweetest. As the rats shuffled back to their holes,
Eve killed fourteen before they even realized there was danger among them.

True, a lot made it back to safety, but I'm sure a certain sense of doom
permeated the collective psyche of the rat colony. As the weeks
progressed, Eve and become a proficient team at rat killing. She would
locate by barking; I would remove the debris that the rats were under, and
as soon as they were uncovered, Eve would kill most of them. It was a
beautiful arrangement and quite a sport. I was hooked on Jack Russells and
figured if one dog can be so much fun, just think what two or three more
would be like. With this in mind, I started looking for a male for Eve.

The next month I found Ratler. At six months he was hunting rats and just
about anything else that dared to breathe oxygen and came within smelling
distance. It was also pretty obvious that a Bull Terrier had flown over
the nest in the not too distant past. He was still a very good dog,
although like most Bull Terriers he was easily knackered by hot weather. I
next purchased a Jack Russell bitch from New York with a pedigree showing
a strong influence of Brian Plummer's stock. Plummer was a noted rat
hunter in England. All of his dogs were dead game with rodents. Her name
was Reaper, as in Grim, and she did have the brown blanket across her back
with which Plummer was trying to identify his dogs. She turned into an
excellent hunter, very agile and quick. However, she and Eve had an
intense dislike for each other. I had never seen dogs carry such a grudge
as Eve and Reaper did. When they fought they were completely silent (so I
wouldn't find them and break up their little game, I suppose), locked at
the throat, no quarter asked nor any given. Many a time I used the pond to
loosen their hold on each other. However, even with this vendetta between
Eve and Reaper, we were still a grand rat killing team. Eve and Reaper
would hunt the nooks and tight places while Ratler would stand back and
watch for the rat to bolt, always thought he showed a lot of intelligence
by doing this as he killed far more rats than the two bitches, but it was
the day by the silos that a white rat almost managed to outwit and outrun
even Ratler.

Every large rat population has what is known as the "king rat." This rat
is generally a male that is nearing the end of his life. They usually
break off from the main rat warren and tend to live a solitary existence.
They are characterized by three traits: they are large, usually twice the
size of a regular rat; they are white or grizzled with age; and they are
homicidal. If any other rat gets near them, they deftly and swiftly cut
its throat. Every rat is aware of where the king is at all times.

I was in one of the equipment sheds when I heard Eve and Ratler making
game. I could tell they were behind the barn by one of the old wooden
silos. The area was honeycombed with rat holes as it was one of the
favorite areas for the rodents. We had killed a large number of rats here,
and I was surprised that Ratler and Eve had found more. When I came around
the corner, both dogs were digging frantically under a piece of concrete.
I quickly grabbed a digging bar from the barn, placed the tip under the
concrete and prized up one end. A very large white rat jumped straight up
between the dogs. The loud clack of jaws snapping air could be heard.
Unbelievably both dogs completely missed their quarry. The rat ran toward
the other cement silo and started climbing the outside of it. Eve flung
herself at the rat, but he was just out of her reach. By the time I got
there, he was twelve feet up the sixty foot silo. I still figured we could
get him if I could dislodge him with a well placed stone. I gathered up a
handful of rocks and started throwing them. Several times I came close;
however the rat was getting near the top, and it appeared that his escape
was imminent. Eve and Ratler were both trying to climb the silo. Eve
actually got five feet off the ground before she fell back. I knew I only
had time for one or two more throws or else the rat would make his escape.
I picked up a stone, took careful aim and threw. The rock missed
completely but ricocheted and struck the rat in the side, just hard enough
to cause him to lose his balance. Eve met him as he fell to the ground. He
never got out a squeal. A big league outfielder couldn't have made a
better catch than Eve. It was a tremendously big rat, and I wished I had
taken the time to weigh it.



--
It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere,
to assume...that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent
purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert
the assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when
proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware
of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is his right under the law,
they begin searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him.
-- H.L. Mencken