wrote in
oups.com:

I agree with the concept - remove carbs, particularly corn - but
it's very hard for a lot of dogs to lose weight on Evo.

Obviously, looking at the dog and what works and what does not is
step #1. I know some really obese dogs (and cats) though, and I
*know* what they are eating and how much of it. It's a long-term
problem wherein they are being fed miniscule amounts of low-cal
foods, and they are still maintaining their manatee-like figures.
Something is seriously wrong, and it breaks my heart. I wish their
owners would try something else, because what they are doing is not
working. Evo might not work (raw is out completely, because the
owners will not handle meat), but it's worth a shot.

My 50+ lb
aussie got 2/3 cup daily and never could drop any weight, though
she did add muscle at least.

Muscle weighs more than fat, so I would consider that to be an
improvement. Aside from that, muscle uses more energy than fat, and
it just plain healthier.

She's naturally lower activity level, lower metabolism, and yes
multiple fully thyroid panels have been normal. Finally made the
switch to raw this winter and it's been wonderful for her - has
shed 5 lbs, 2 to go, and is absolutely thriving.

Whatever works! I'm certainly not against raw diets, assuming they
are researched and prepared carefully.

Interestingly, my golden's coat was always crappy on Evo, though
she often had dandruff on a variety of premium kibble. The best
kibble combo seemed to be Evo / Innova. Since I switched her to
raw her coat is clear of dandruff, shiny, and soft.

My dog has always had a good, shiny coat. It's improved on Evo, but
it was nice to begin with. I *am* happy about the lack of odor,
though, and so is she, as it means fewer baths.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Susan Fraser wrote in
oups.com:

We've had a lot of rain so she hadn't been worked as much as I
like, but other than that and the Evo, nothing else I can think of
had changed.

Could it be the Evo? I hope not, Shammie and SheBop seem to be
thriving on it, and Gris' coat is really getting nice.

I really have no idea. It could be, or it could be a number of other
factors. I'd first want to rule out the reduced-onna-counta-rain
exercise. *That* will make little Miss Brown batshit crazy, and
there's not much to be done about it, besides thinking up new indoor
activities, because she is miserable in the rain.

I've heard competition obedience people use B complex for
stress at trials. On a single recommendation I just ordered some
"Stress Free Calmplex":
https://www.springtimeinc.com/product/100/2 - anyone heard of it?
Or have any other suggestions?

I know very little about supplements for dogs. I take a lot of B and
C because it decreases the bitchies (go ahead and laugh, but me
without B&C is sort of beyond the pale). Also flax oil, which seems
to make me think more clearly.

I didn't notice a smell before, but since I switched to Evo I HAVE
noticed a wonderful smell that's just like the way baby puppies
still in the litter smell. I've been burying my face in Gris' fur
and snorting it - it's intoxicating almost like puppy breath! I
love it!

Weird, isn't it? I suspected the odor was coming from the Euk/Iams,
because it was coincidental to switching to those. However, I had
started to worry that it was an aging dog smell, and was going to ask
the vet about it at our next appointment. It appears that it
probably *was* the food, though.

If I have to chose between start line stays and that
smell, well, maybe we can do tracking instead ;-

Ha!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

?I know some really obese dogs (and cats) though, and I *know* what
they are eating and how much of it. ?It's a long-term problem wherein
they are being fed miniscule amounts of low-cal foods, and they are
still maintaining their manatee-like figures. ?Something is seriously
wrong, and it breaks my heart. ?

Oh absolutely. I do think diet foods for the most part cause the
animals to stay fat. If only I'd known with my previous dog
(hubby's "first wife" g). We fed her kibble and bits diet and she
was overweight and stinky as heck. I badgered hubby about putting her
in purina instead and not to add table scraps. He laughs at me now
because they still get the same table scraps (lean meats and veggies
without butter or seasonings) only now with my blessings. They train
with the same table scraps, or the extra meat that's cooked up for
them, or raw veggies and fruits. Shoot, my golden was training
earlier for zucchini, and will do ANYTHING in the world for lettuce of
all things. (Hmmm, wonder if that's animal abuse, training for
veggies?)

Muscle weighs more than fat, so I would consider that to be an
improvement. ?Aside from that, muscle uses more energy than fat, and
it just plain healthier.

Oh yes, it was a definite improvement, but still not what I hoped
for. Then she nearly died from a blocked gall bladder last fall and
lost all her muscle tone plus "porked up" 5 pounds while she was
healing. At the time it was important to give her nearly 9 year old
body plenty of calories but I knew they'd come back to bite us in the
butt. :::sigh:::
?
?I'm certainly not against raw diets, assuming they are researched
and prepared carefully.

I'd wanted to do it for ages but was worried about it. Definitely
have put research into it, and now that I've found the right food for
the girls, I'm kicking myself for not doing it earlier of course.

My dog has always had a good, shiny coat. ?It's improved on Evo,
but it was nice to begin with. ?I *am* happy about the lack of odor,
though, and so is she, as it means fewer baths.

A lot of people on Setters-L complained about Evo turning the coats
into straw, and I saw that to some extent on Nellie, but OTOH it
improved her in ways. Definitely gotta love a food that keeps them
smelling and looking sweet. I'm with you on the baths too - that's
why I like working wash-n-wear coats.

Hope

I've heard competition obedience people use B complex for stress at
trials. On a single recommendation I just ordered some Stress Free
Calmplex":

Yes, the B-vitamins affect the nervous system, so a lot of people
suppliment. I've used SFC on two dogs with mixed results. I *think*
it may have helped, and certainly didn't hurt, but it may have
depended on why I was using it. I currently suppliment with their
Longevity and it's done wonders for my oldest, who is 9ish and was
starting to get a bit creaky. Between that and the raw diet, she's
kicking up her heels now and is doing things her body really shouldn't
be doing.

Hope

"
Susan Fraser wrote in
I've heard competition obedience people use B complex for
stress at trials. On a single recommendation I just ordered some
"Stress Free Calmplex":
https://www.springtimeinc.com/product/100/2 - anyone heard of it?
Or have any other suggestions?



Susan,

I tried it for Zivia way back when. I didn't notice a difference. I do
still use their garlic powder.

Beth

Interestingly, my golden's coat was always crappy on Evo, though
she often had dandruff on a variety of premium kibble. The best
kibble combo seemed to be Evo / Innova. Since I switched her to
raw her coat is clear of dandruff, shiny, and soft.

My Goldens had just finished blowing coat when I switched, and Gris-
Gris
was embarrasingly bald. It's bad enough my field Goldens are small and
red,
such that I get questions like the guy at the hotel this week-end:
"Does she
have some Golden in her?" I don't need to add bald too. Her coat on
Evo
(while still quite sparse by show Golden standards) has come in thick
and
shiny.

My dog has always had a good, shiny coat. It's improved on Evo, but
it was nice to begin with. I *am* happy about the lack of odor,
though, and so is she, as it means fewer baths.

Baths, bah. We don't need no stinkin' baths. I don't soap my girls. I
will
hose them off with clear water, but I believe most soaps strip their
natural
oils and makes the hair shaft porus, holding odors in. All the dogs I
know
who get regular baths stink. My dogs smell like dogs.

Gris-Gris rolled on a dead something-or-other (impossible to tell what
it might
have been without a forensic lab) at agility class Saturday and while
I could
smell it on her just afterwards, by the time we got home it was gone.
Same
thing happened not too long ago, but it took a rinsing to get rid of
it. She has
never had soap on her, and she's 3.

Susan Fraser and the AuH2Ok9s
HR BeBop a Lu SheBop SH,
HR Shamma Lamma Ding Dong UD MH AX AXJ,
and Gris-Gris Gumbo Ya Ya AX AXJ

Susan Fraser wrote in
ups.com:

My Goldens had just finished blowing coat when I switched,

What is this "blowing coat" you speak of?

Baths, bah. We don't need no stinkin' baths.

You ain't got no stinkin' Boxers, missy! That said, the need for
bathing has decreased significantly since the food switch. Miss
Brown hasn't had a bath in months.

I don't soap my girls. I will hose them off with clear water, but
I believe most soaps strip their natural oils and makes the hair
shaft porus, holding odors in. All the dogs I know who get regular
baths stink. My dogs smell like dogs.

If I had retrievers, especially, I'd avoid bathing them. They
definitely seem to do best when their coats are left to their own
devices, assuming they swim regularly.

Gris-Gris rolled on a dead something-or-other (impossible to tell
what it might have been without a forensic lab) at agility class
Saturday and while I could smell it on her just afterwards,

O gross!

by the time we got home it was gone. Same thing happened not too
long ago, but it took a rinsing to get rid of it. She has never
had soap on her, and she's 3.

That's how Elliott was. He smelled sweet all the time and didn't
really require bathing. A good thing, because he *hated* baths.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

wrote in
oups.com:

Oh absolutely. I do think diet foods for the most part cause the
animals to stay fat.

That certainly seems to be the case with the fat animals I know.

Shoot, my golden was training earlier for zucchini, and will do
ANYTHING in the world for lettuce of all things.

Oh yeah. Harriet drools for plain, white rice, and will work for
just about anything she sees me eat. If I eat it, it suddenly
becomes yummy.

A lot of people on Setters-L complained about Evo turning the
coats into straw, and I saw that to some extent on Nellie, but
OTOH it improved her in ways. Definitely gotta love a food that
keeps them smelling and looking sweet. I'm with you on the baths
too - that's why I like working wash-n-wear coats.

Wash-n-wear is a must, though I'm also fond of "never, ever needs
washing."

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

My Goldens had just finished blowing coat when I switched, and Gris-
Gris was embarrasingly bald. It's bad enough my field Goldens are
small and red, such that I get questions like the guy at the hotel
this week-end: "Does she have some Golden in her?" I don't need to
add bald too. Her coat on Evo (while still quite sparse by show Golden
standards) has come in thick and shiny.

ROTFL Nellie is a field line rescue, medium gold with just the
slightest reddish cast, though she has the graying gene and her face
at 8ish is nearly white. Anyway she's 22" (lucky AKC agility
measurement bg) and fairly lanky, not much coat though she has more
than she used to. People would ask me if she was an Irish Setter.
(???!!!!) My favorite was the person at the vet who asked her breed
because she didn't know they came in "lean" models. GRRRRR!!!!

I'd love to see pictures of your girls. Small, lean, red athletic
machines are my favorite kind of goldens. I haven't decided what
my next dog will be - debating between another golden or maybe trying
a dal or (field!!!) english setter. And I think I'm going back the
rescue route. It's the coolest feeling peeling back the layers and
discovering a gem of a dog in one that nobody wanted, and I'm really
not competitive enough in nature to care about starting a pup off at 7
weeks to have a prime performance dog. I enjoy competing, but am
pretty laid back and don't have the desire to try to achieve the
highest levels. So long as my girls are having a good time I'm
happy. Honestly I think I enjoy the journey more than the ending.

Baths, bah. We don't need no stinkin' baths. I don't soap my girls.

Gris-Gris rolled on a dead something-or-other (impossible to tell
what it might have been without a forensic lab) at agility class
Saturday and while I could smell it on her just afterwards, by the
time we got home it was gone.

And this is why I love the wash-n-wear working coats. Walk through a
mucky sheep pond, track through brambles, roll on bloody squashed
fresh caught shrew and in less time than a sitcom you've got a clean
dog again. I couldn't stand having a show coated dog. Shoot, I'm
taken aback at my older aussie finally growing a bit of britches at 9
years young. I'm actually having to use a comb on her more than once
a quarter. Yikes! Besides, if I washed my golden I'd have stinky
soap covered the marvelous cedar smell she has on her head.
Mmmmmmmmmm!

Hope

Oh yeah. Harriet drools for plain, white rice, and will work for
just about anything she sees me eat. If I eat it, it suddenly becomes
yummy.

LOL that's how I taught my oldest to like her veggies. She'd turn her
nose up if offered from the kitchen counter, but if it came off our
dinner plate it was haute cuisine. About the only thing she wont eat
now is lettuce, though she gets her piece along with everyone else so
she can go through the motions of taking it, spitting it out, and
wrinking her nose in disgust at it. (Darn Princess dogs! g)
The loathed foliage never stays on the floor long thanks to our
resident vaccuum cleaner. In Shy's defense, she appears to have as
warped of a sense of taste as her sisters, as she apparently finds
vaseline and bag balm delicious. (BTW bag balm is a great cure for
constipation! :::sigh::

I crack up about showing Nellie the golden one day in rally. I saw
something white on the floor, and just as I was asking myself if it
was a piece of dropped food, it was gone. I *think* it was a piece of
paper, but who knows.

Hope