This afternoon, I started training Muttley using the methods described by
Jerry Howe. The first lesson is the "Hot And Cold" exercise, which teaches
the dog to pay attention to his trainer. The objective is for him always to
have one ear and one eye focused on me.

My first step was to put on his leash, and his "training collar", for which
I am using a flat nylon limited choke. His new flat collar would also be
OK, and probably preferable, except it came loose once, so I don't trust
it. He was not too happy about having the collar slipped over his nose and
ears. I may need to loosen it before putting it on and adjust it afterward.
In any case, it is designed to be snug enough to prevent escape without
actually "choking". It is to be used only for control, and not for
"correction".

As usual, I had him wait at the door until I opened it and stepped on the
porch. He was too quick to run down the three steps to the grass, but this
is still early in his training. Once I was on the front lawn, he assumed he
was going for a walk, and started out in his preferred direction. However,
I stopped him as he reached the end of the leash, and slightly reduced
tension, until he sat and looked away. If I started moving, he would get up
and go. My objective was to make him pay attention to me. I called his
name, with little response, but eventually I was able to move to the side
and catch his eye, at which point I gave him praise and slackened the
leash. However, he once again started moving along, to the end of the
leash, where I stopped him again.

The exercise is supposed to be conducted standing in one place, with the
dog alternately moving away and returning. However, he was highly motivated
to continue his expected walk, and would not respond when I called his
name, except eventually to sit and stare ahead. I tried not to call him to
"come", as this was intended to get him to pay attention, rather than
respond to a command. I was able to get him to look at me, which I rewarded
with praise, and he seemed to be "getting it". But he is a hardheaded mutt
and after five or ten minutes I took him for his walk. However, he seemed
better about pulling, and several times I stopped and waited for him to
look at me before continuing. It was sometimes a war of wills as he just
sat there looking at the trees or anywhere but me, but with a bit of
coaxing he would give me a glance, whereupon I praised and continued the
walk.

On the way back, he was better than usual about walking with a loose leash,
and actually assumed a decent heel position, for which he was rewarded with
praise. Back at the house, I told him to go inside, and he did so
willingly. It was wicked hot and humid, so both of us were happy to get
inside where it was cooler. I had him sit and wait while I removed his
collar and leash, and then rewarded him with a rawhide chewy. Of course, I
ask him to sit first, unless he beats me to it. He knows that's what he
should do. "Good Boy!"

I'm taking these exercises slowly. I called Jerry, and he wanted me to
proceed quickly to the "Family Pack" exercises and instilling the "come"
reflexive conditioned command. That will come later. I think Muttley needs
a much more solid groundwork of automatically paying attention. I had
suspected this before, but didn't know how to do it.

This was definitely lacking in Janet's class. I was immediately barking
commands and applying corrections to enforce sits and stays, and I never
had any control when I was yanking on his choker attempting to force a
"heel", while he was clawing his way left and right to check out new smells
and other distractions. I would have had to lift him up by the chain and
stare him in the eye to get his attention. And that just isn't going to
happen with a 75 pound high drive dog that doesn't even seem to mind being
handled that way, although I'm sure he was annoyed, and thinking of ways to
"fix" this mistreatment, by attacking somebody in the class, which was the
only place this occurred.

The last paragraph is just my own observation, and I have tried to describe
my actual experiences with this first step to training, using gentle and
consistent methods that will probably work. I invite Jerry to add his
critique and suggestions, and anyone else who cares to comment. Or you may
choose to killfile me. I don't care. This is my forum for reporting my
experiences and fine tuning Muttley's training to be as effective as
possible.

Paul and Muttley

www.smart.net/~pstech/HoweManual.txt

On Jun 27, 12:42 am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
The exercise is supposed to be conducted standing in one place, with the
dog alternately moving away and returning. However, he was highly motivated
to continue his expected walk,

Who was it that wagered he wouldn't follow Jerry's Methods either? We
have your winnings waiting for you at the main desk.

This was definitely lacking in Janet's class. I was immediately barking
commands and applying corrections to enforce sits and stays, and I never
had any control when I was yanking on his choker attempting to force a
"heel", while he was clawing his way left and right to check out new smells
and other distractions. I would have had to lift him up by the chain and
stare him in the eye to get his attention. And that just isn't going to
happen with a 75 pound high drive dog that doesn't even seem to mind being
handled that way, although I'm sure he was annoyed, and thinking of ways to
"fix" this mistreatment, by attacking somebody in the class, which was the
only place this occurred.

You really are an ass, you know that? Everyone here knows it. Why
you continue to berate the free in person assistance you received on a
newsgroup of people who I don't believe care to hear anything else
from you, I do not know. It is an open group though, and you are free
to continue making an ass of yourself if you so desire.

Nick

in rec.pets.dogs.behavior, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote in
:

As usual, I had him wait at the door until I opened it and stepped on
the porch. He was too quick to run down the three steps to the grass,
but this is still early in his training.

Important point to note, you hadn't actually started his training yet.

Also, why are you focussed on having him not go down the stairs before
you??

Once I was on the front lawn,
he assumed he was going for a walk, and started out in his preferred
direction.

One option you might try is to take him for a long walk/run, drain some
of his physical energy and then try training him.

However, I stopped him as he reached the end of the leash,
and slightly reduced tension, until he sat and looked away. If I
started moving, he would get up and go. My objective was to make him
pay attention to me. I called his name, with little response, but
eventually I was able to move to the side and catch his eye, at which
point I gave him praise and slackened the leash. However, he once
again started moving along, to the end of the leash, where I stopped
him again.

Are you trying toi get him to loose-leash walk or pay attention to you.
They are two different objectives that are only a little bit related. If
Mutley isn't paying attention to you, getting him to loose-leash walk
will be more difficult. Trying to get him to do it while walking is only
going to greatly decrease your chances of success. Get him paying
attention to you reliably, and then move on to walking.

The exercise is supposed to be conducted standing in one place, with
the dog alternately moving away and returning. However, he was highly
motivated to continue his expected walk, and would not respond when I
called his name, except eventually to sit and stare ahead. I tried not
to call him to "come", as this was intended to get him to pay
attention, rather than respond to a command. I was able to get him to
look at me, which I rewarded with praise, and he seemed to be "getting
it". But he is a hardheaded mutt and after five or ten minutes I took
him for his walk. However, he seemed better about pulling, and several
times I stopped and waited for him to look at me before continuing. It
was sometimes a war of wills as he just sat there looking at the trees
or anywhere but me, but with a bit of coaxing he would give me a
glance, whereupon I praised and continued the walk.

If it is supposed to be done while standing still, why were you doing it
walking??

snip

I'm taking these exercises slowly. I called Jerry, and he wanted me to
proceed quickly to the "Family Pack" exercises and instilling the
"come" reflexive conditioned command. That will come later. I think
Muttley needs a much more solid groundwork of automatically paying
attention. I had suspected this before, but didn't know how to do it.

And I suspect that you still don't know how to do it. It appears that you
are trying to get Muttley to learn two things at once. Like I said above,
start with getting Muttley to reliably pay attention to you. Then move on
from there. It will work much better than trying to do two things at
once.

This was definitely lacking in Janet's class. I was immediately
barking commands and applying corrections to enforce sits and stays,
and I never had any control when I was yanking on his choker
attempting to force a "heel", while he was clawing his way left and
right to check out new smells and other distractions. I would have had
to lift him up by the chain and stare him in the eye to get his
attention. And that just isn't going to happen with a 75 pound high
drive dog that doesn't even seem to mind being handled that way,
although I'm sure he was annoyed, and thinking of ways to "fix" this
mistreatment, by attacking somebody in the class, which was the only
place this occurred.

So it is no longer that the other dog provoked him somehow?? Looked at
him funny? Insulted his mother?

--
Marcel Beaudoin and Moogli

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:40:45 -0000,
"
wrote:

On Jun 27, 12:42 am, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
[...]

You really are an ass, you know that? Everyone here knows it. Why
you continue to berate the free in person assistance you received

Not only proving once again that no good deed goes unpunished, but
that there's always a good reason why a man of Schoen's age isn't
married - in this case, because there's no woman dumb enough to
actually marry someone that weird. Okay, maybe Lisa Marie Presley
would, but that's about it.

And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that "Helene" is really Schoen's
sister either.

Or someone he abducted from a Wal-Mart parking lot.

Prediction: We'll eventually see Schoen on the evening news, and
Geraldo Rivera will be interviewing his mother, who will try to claim
that her son was always such a nice little boy and that she can't
understand why he "snapped" and killed that nice Mormon family.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...e-denmark.html

United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sp...&oref=sl ogin

diddy wrote:

Do tell.

YOUR Forum?

Well, now, if Paul is the owner of the Good Ship RPD, I'd like to
request that he fix a few things around here. Just sayin'...

Why not AOHEll where they appreciate you?
I could show you some REALLY trained dogs (as well as many others here)

Hell, even I could show him a dog that's really well trained in
comparison to his own dog.

rather than accept that perhaps your methods are inefficient.

What methods? Because I don't see Paul doing much of anything but
flapping his fingers and his gums.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:56:35 -0500, diddy
wrote:

[...]
Well his twist is certainly HIS methods. Just as Jerry patented HIS. So
he's stealing "Jerry's methods", and *******izing them to his own.

Have you ever tried to herd a bunch of cats?

All I can say is, good luck, Jerry!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Way to go, Vikings!
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/20...e-denmark.html

United States 2, Mexico 1
Too bad, muchachas putierrez! Better luck next time, putas!
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/sp...&oref=sl ogin

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
This is my forum

Um, no, Paul, it's a _public_ forum. Why don't you save
bandwidth and put your notes on your web site? You could provide
a link, and then everyone who is interested could click to read.

for reporting my
experiences and fine tuning Muttley's training to be as effective as
possible.

FurPaw
--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.

FurPaw wrote:
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
This is my forum

Um, no, Paul, it's a _public_ forum.

I think he's very quickly being assimilated into the Howe Collective.

Why don't you save bandwidth and
put your notes on your web site? You could provide a link, and then
everyone who is interested could click to read.

That would amount to spam. He's allowed to post his "notes" here.
And, besides, I occasionally enjoy a good, black comedy.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

diddy wrote:

Well his twist is certainly HIS methods. Just as Jerry patented HIS.

Howe has a patent on his methods?

So he's stealing "Jerry's methods", and *******izing them to his own.

I've often been accused of being cynical (no, really), but I don't
see any reason to think that Paul is actually *doing* anything to
train his dog, though lord knows he may *think* he's accomplishing
something.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Shelly wrote:
FurPaw wrote:
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
This is my forum

Um, no, Paul, it's a _public_ forum.

I think he's very quickly being assimilated into the [****] Collective.

ROFL!

Why don't you save bandwidth and put your notes on your web site? You
could provide a link, and then everyone who is interested could click
to read.

That would amount to spam.

Not if he's not advertising anything for sale on that page.

He's allowed to post his "notes" here. And,
besides, I occasionally enjoy a good, black comedy.

Yabbut... with assimilation, his posts, already getting lengthy,
will soon approach the bulk of those of the Collective. You
could always click on a link for your comedy fix...

Not that it's gonna happen.

FurPaw

--
The Bush legacy - no child left a dime.

To reply, unleash the dog.