pfoley wrote:

snip

Are you sure about that?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"pfoley" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I would suggest you always keep the pup on a long leash
when at the dog park.

If "long" means 6 feet, I agree. Otherwise, that's bad advice.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:19:19 -0000,
"
wrote:

[...]
Through people I know, I have arranged for a special place in Hell for
the folks who own retrievers, especially Labs, who don't play fetch
with them.

[...]
Amen to that. I'm trying to teach Yoda fetch. He isn't a natural at
it like a good old retriever, but he's starting to get it. He
actually runs to it, picks it up and brings it most of the way back
before dropping it, sometimes he even makes it all the way back. A
lot better than it was a week and a half ago when I started teaching
him fetch. He would either look at me like I lost my mind when I
threw his toy, or run to it and then just continue running around
until I recalled him back to me.

Nick, have you ever taught him to "Hold it"?

Start off with your dog sitting in front of you, or at your side,
whichever is easier for you.

Place the retrieving object (really, it should be a training dummy,
because that's what they're for, and they last forever) in his mouth.
Then *gently* hold the object in his mouth (use both hands and gently
surround [cup?) the dog's muzzle), and say "Hold it!"

[Never get into a struggle with your dog over this! Just stop, and
think about what you're doing wrong, like going too fast, pressing
down too hard, etc.]

Hold your hands there for, say, 10 seconds, at first. And just don't
let him drop the object or spit it out. As he's holding it, say "Good
boy, Hold it!" You might even want to gently run your fingers up and
down his muzzle, too, soothing him, until he gets the hang of it. Make
it as pleasant an experience for him as possible!

Then lengthen the time to, say, 20 seconds, and repeat.

Then 30 seconds. And repeat.

Then try placing the object in his mouth, commanding him to "Hold
it!", but this time, very sloooooowly, remove your hands from his
muzzle, while still saying "Hooooold it!" Hoooooooold it"! Feel free
to point your finger at him, while you're saying "Hoooold it!", too,
to lend emphasis.

Drawing out the word "hold" (Hoooooooold it!) really helps out here.

Then have him hold it by himself for a few seconds at first (praise
him for it!). Then gradually increase the time, until he's holding it
for at least 30 seconds, all by himself. At first, keep saying
"Hoooooooold it" various times throughout the drill, then reduce the
frequency. You want to get to where you only have to say it once, of
course, but feel free to repeat it during the teaching of the command.

You should be able to heel him around with the object in his mouth.

You should also teach him a release command, too, e.g., "give" or
"drop it." Yes, right into your hand.

After he's doing this pretty well (practice the drill every day for 2
weeks), and when the dog is returning from a retrieve with the dummy,
say his name, and then "Hold it!" Hooooooold it!
Hooooooooooooooooooold it" all the way back in. Make him sit, then
give him the release command, etc.

Get the idea?

You can make the finish very formal (walk behind you and sit on your
left and drop it into your hand), or not so formal (drop it on the
ground anywhere near you), it's up to you.

Good luck!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Some "consensus," eh?
"Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory"
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...c-6880767e7966

"They're very excitable, these Democrats."
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22161

In typical "reality-based" fashion, John Edwards wants you to give up *your* SUV, but wants to keep *his* 30,000
sq. ft. home, multiple SUVs, ride in private jets, etc.
http://www.wlos.com/template/inews_w...wlos.com.shtml
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...dwardsHome.jpg

spit

*This* is the *real* reason why the "reality-based" community pushes global-warming hysteria.
To push you around and take your money. Senator Dingell now wants a cap on the Mortgage Interest Deduction!
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...ll_wants_c.php

Freakin' Democrats. spit

The "reality-based" community: Hopelessly Devoted to Failure.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...ZhYjU5ZjEzNDE=

Why "liberal" doesn't quite fit:
"In the short term, this reflects the failure of the Republican Party to secure its hard-won victories. In
the longer term, this may provide a new opportunity for the heirs to authentic liberalism - today's conservatives -
as they often thrive when lovers of big government, by whatever name they go by, overreach."
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/...beral-doe.html

"The main proponents of 'universal coverage' want to throw more money at the current health care system,
which strikes me as unwise. I believe that the 'universal coverage' mantra is dysfunctional for the same
reason that 'more money for public schools' is a dysfunctional mantra for education. When your current
approach is digging you into a hole, the sensible thing to do is not to dig faster. It is to stop digging."
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=080607B

"tiny dancer" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
[list snipped]

Vizsla are large? I saw my first wire-coated Vizsla the other
week and he was big, but the majority of Vizsla are smaller than
my Aussie.

And some of those you list are tall and light, but certainly not
large.

NSDTRs? WTF!?

Your list is whacked.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:26:41 -0000, CanineDivine
wrote:

I will
still need to teach a formal retrieve, but her play retrieve is coming
along pretty well, especially when combined with tugging.

Tip: Stop playing tug with your dog. It's counterproductive to
learning not only the retrieve, but the proper *release* of the object
into your hand when she gets back to you.

Tug-of-war is a struggle.

Retrieving, however, is an anti-struggle, where the dog *willingly*
gives up an object, no matter how much she loves it.

You never want a dog to get confused about what she's doing, and at
the worst possible moment, etc.

This mostly applies to someone who is contemplating competition at
some level.

If you're not, do carry on! But know that teaching a formal retrieve
is going to go more slowly for you.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Some "consensus," eh?
"Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory"
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.c...c-6880767e7966

"They're very excitable, these Democrats."
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=22161

In typical "reality-based" fashion, John Edwards wants you to give up *your* SUV, but wants to keep *his* 30,000
sq. ft. home, multiple SUVs, ride in private jets, etc.
http://www.wlos.com/template/inews_w...wlos.com.shtml
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...dwardsHome.jpg

spit

*This* is the *real* reason why the "reality-based" community pushes global-warming hysteria.
To push you around and take your money. Senator Dingell now wants a cap on the Mortgage Interest Deduction!
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007...ll_wants_c.php

Freakin' Democrats. spit

The "reality-based" community: Hopelessly Devoted to Failure.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...ZhYjU5ZjEzNDE=

Why "liberal" doesn't quite fit:
"In the short term, this reflects the failure of the Republican Party to secure its hard-won victories. In
the longer term, this may provide a new opportunity for the heirs to authentic liberalism - today's conservatives -
as they often thrive when lovers of big government, by whatever name they go by, overreach."
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/...beral-doe.html

"The main proponents of 'universal coverage' want to throw more money at the current health care system,
which strikes me as unwise. I believe that the 'universal coverage' mantra is dysfunctional for the same
reason that 'more money for public schools' is a dysfunctional mantra for education. When your current
approach is digging you into a hole, the sensible thing to do is not to dig faster. It is to stop digging."
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=080607B

"Suja" wrote in message
...

"pfoley" wrote in message:

I would suggest you always keep the pup on a long leash when at the dog
park.

This is a really, really, really, really BAD idea (Yes, really!). IME,

Restrained dogs tend to behave differently when greeting other dogs than
unrestrained dogs, and especially in a dog park like setting, tends to
make
the leashed dog feel uncomfortable/nervous when faced with a bunch of
unrestrained dogs. One of the things we tell newbies whose dogs are
cowering or getting snappy at the other end of a leash inside a dog park
is
to let the dog go (of course, that depends on the dog, and we are careful
to
restrain our dogs until new dog has explored a bit and is more settled
in).

It would be dangerous for other dogs and people to have this dog drag
around
a leash that can get tangled, and can lead to serious injuries to both man
and beast. I have seen dogs be clotheslined by flexis (for instance, when
the owners are about to leave the dog park), and it's not pretty.

Dogs get excited when other dogs are playing, and a dog on-leash, with
limited options (can't fully join in play) can get frustrated and learn
really bad habits like lunging and pulling

Suja
==========
I wouldn't let the pup play. I meant to walk the pup on a long leash around
the dog park to acclimate himself to the park, observe the other dogs and to
get some exercise. When he is a little older and better behaved, I would
let him off leash, to see how he behaved. If he behaved badly, I would put
him back on the leash. That was a suggestion; something I would most likely
do with an unruly pup. It would not be dangerous as I would be holding onto
the leash and not allowing the dog to play.

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
"pfoley" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I would suggest you always keep the pup on a long leash
when at the dog park.

If "long" means 6 feet, I agree. Otherwise, that's bad advice.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
===============
I meant a regular leash or a little longer but loose leash.

In article ,
"pfoley" wrote:


I wouldn't let the pup play. I meant to walk the pup on a long leash around
the dog park to acclimate himself to the park, observe the other dogs and to
get some exercise.

What kind of exercise do you suppose he'd get? Pulling to get to the
park area?

When he is a little older and better behaved,

By magic?

I would
let him off leash, to see how he behaved.

Just wing it? How about TRAINING - a novel concept.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

pfoley wrote:

I meant a regular leash or a little longer but loose leash.

Long, regular, a little longer, and loose. That's one hell of a
leash. Also, how rude!

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Tip: Stop playing tug with your dog. ?It's counterproductive to
learning not only the retrieve, but the proper *release* of the object
into your hand when she gets back to you.

Tugging is what you make of it. Dogs are able to differentiate
between tug and retrieve. You can tug a retrieve object, you can
retrieve a tug object. It's all in what you've trained.

Tug-of-war is a struggle. Retrieving, however, is an anti-
struggle, where the dog *willingly* gives up an object, no matter how
much she loves it.

Gee, I guess Shy is confused because she will willingly gives up her
beloved tug object.

You never want a dog to get confused about what she's doing, and
at the worst possible moment, etc.

You have no idea what rules I have with tugging and retrieving, or
what I do to make any differentiation necessary. You have to take
into acount each dog's personality. I probably wouldn't tug with
gloves for a dog that is already kill-happy, but a dog that is less
enthused about DR can find glove tugging a real motivator. Some dogs
can be tugging fools on their tracking glove without going into kill
mode in utility, others find it harder to differentiate. It's called
knowing your dog, understanding how they learn, and tweaking training
appropriately.

This mostly applies to someone who is contemplating competition at
some level. If you're not, do carry on! But know that teaching a
formal retrieve is going to go more slowly for ?you.

And yet TONS of OTCH dogs play tug, and have no trouble learning a
formal retrieve. When I'm ready to work Faith on it, neither will
she. At the moment though I'm focusing on building her attitude,
drive, confidence, and having positive, bonding interactions
together. What I am doing is moving her nicely towards my goals, but
thanks for your concern.

Hope