Hi Friends,

Max seems to be itching/scratching again. Let me give you the history.

Four about 9 months Max has been on a home-cooked diet and all had been
well. About two months ago, Max started refusing to eat his food and we put
him back on Actigall (Ursodiol: a bile acid that is supposed to help the
liver function and clear the gall bladder of sediment).

He was doing fine on the Ursodiol but his feces were rather lose in the
afternoon--pouring from his anus. (We had Max checked for parasites and lose
feces can be produced by Ursodiol.) I next reduced the fat in his diet from
about 10% to 5%. This did not much change the consistency of his feces, so I
later added corn starch (1 tablespoon per day). This helped his feces but
within two days he was scratching.

I assumed the scratching was due to the corn starch. So, I discontinued the
corn starch and used Benadryl to reduce the scratching. Within 4 days Max's
scratching was virtually gone.

Still concerned about his lose feces, I now used white rice flour to
increase the consistency of his feces. (His diet mostly consists of 49% cow
peas and 49% brown rice plus calcium, flaxseed oil, multivitamins, and
sodium + potassium chloride.) It did not take much flour to ehance his feces
and he has been consuming rice for years without itching.

All went well, until I gave him a bath. I used the same doggy shampoo as
always (one with colloidal oatmeal) and I rinsed him well to remove
all the soap, as residual soap had been a problem in the past. After
the bath he began itiching and this seems to be a repeat of what
happened with the corn starch.

In fact, two days after beginning the corn starch I had bathed Max!!!
So, the corn starch might not have been the cause of his itching at
all!!! The itching has twice increased after he has been bathed and
then decreased over time.

My thought now is that perhaps the problem is the fat content of his food I
had lowered it from about 10% down to about 5%. So the bath that did not
produce itching in the past may do this now given the low fat content of his
food. Another background factor is that Ursodiol can produce itching, but
the most important point is that the itching increases after bathing and
decreases with the passage of time.

So, I have raised the fat content of his food back to 10% and added some
more white rice flour (4 tsp per day). I hope the itching goes down
in the next few days as before. I think a month may be needed if the
fat is to make a difference in his itching. I'm also going to use
less soap and cooler water when bathing him. He is a Havanese and
his coat gets quite dirty after about 15 days. I've also bought
one of those new gloves (with some sort of microfiber) that cleans fur.

Any more ideas?

Thanks,

--Marshall

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...
Any more ideas?

Essential fatty acids. 10% is pretty low fat content for a dog.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

In article diddy
writes:


Have you tried a moisturizer to his coat after bathing?

Hi Diddy,

I thought of this but the weather has been very humid and
I did not follow up on the idea.

Thanks! I will more seriously consider trying this.

Just spoke with my wife and she said "I told you that!!" :-)

What kind of moisturizer would you suggest?

--Marshall

In article . net "buglady" writes:

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...
Any more ideas?

Essential fatty acids. 10% is pretty low fat content for a dog.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Hi Buglady!!

Without the extra rice flour that I have been adding, here is
what Dr. Remillard reported for the diet:

"We have forumulated this homemade diet to be 15% protein,, 10%
fat with 9 gm of flaxseed oil, 12% fiber, .4% calcium, and
..1% sodium on a dry matter basis. The omega 3 fatty content
is estimated at 4.22% of the dry matter and the omega 6 to
omega 3 ratio is estimated to be at 0.4." She went on to note
that perhaps even more protein might be benefical but not
in the form of cowpeas / brown rice because of the high
fiber content of these ingredients. (I've been thinking
of egg whites plus a bit of yolk.)

I have not yet written to Dr. Remillard about this problem.
For months he was doing well on the Actigall and the homemade
diet at 10% fat. I think I will wait and see how things go
given that I have increased the fat to 10%. Of course, you
could be right and it took months before the inadequate
fat level affected his skin.

There is always the problem of hysteresis: the temporal
lag between changing some force acting on a system and the
change in the system. I encountered this when adjusting
the amount of potassium citrate to add to his diet to
keep his urine PH above 6.8 but below about 8.

Thanks for your comments.

I know we all appreciate your valuable contributions to
this group. Is there some way we can honor you? How
about a contribution to your favorite charity?

--Marshall

In article diddy writes:
}in thread : (Marshall
}Dermer) whittled the following words:
}
}} In article } diddy
} writes:
}}
}}}
}}}Have you tried a moisturizer to his coat after bathing?
}}
}} Hi Diddy,
}}
}} I thought of this but the weather has been very humid and
}} I did not follow up on the idea.
}}
}} Thanks! I will more seriously consider trying this.
}}
}} Just spoke with my wife and she said "I told you that!!" :-)
}}
}} What kind of moisturizer would you suggest?
}}
}} --Marshall
}}
}
}Any grooming/pet/online pet store sells moisturizers for post bath use. I'm
}not sure the extent of his scratching, but often after a bath, my dog's
}scratch too. I would have thought you would have noticed this after all
}these years, so I hope my advice is correct, and doesn't set him up for
}some kind of allergic reaction, or help mask something medical.
}I know you will read labels carefully so as to not give him something that
}might irritate him.
}Give Max my best.

OK and thanks!

Diddy, I live in the we city but it appears that you are out in the country
with a barn, horses, and, of course, dogs! :-)

I always admired the grace and beauty of horses.

--Marshall

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...
In article . net
"buglady" writes:
.. Of course, you
could be right and it took months before the inadequate
fat level affected his skin.

..........Formulated diets don't thrill me too much. To me the first rule is
Look at the Dog.

Cheers
buglady
take out the dog before replying

In article diddy writes:

Marshall wrote:
Diddy, I live in the we city but it appears that you are out in the
country with a barn, horses, and, of course, dogs! :-)

I always admired the grace and beauty of horses.

--Marshall

Diddy writes:

Did I miss something? I didn't recall mentioning barns and horses, but yes.

Marshall:

You are not missing anything. I googled your name and found posts were
you alluded to a barn, horses, etc. --Marshall

In article diddy writes:
Thank you Marshall. Those two girls (not sure where you picked up my web
page) are 34 years old. They've both been retired for a long time, and both
have seen better days, but they are living out their remaining years on the
farm.

No doubt a labor of love and kindness . . . .

Do you have a webpage? I only found some of your interesting posts
via google.

--Marshall

In article . net "buglady" writes:

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...
In article . net
"buglady" writes:
. Of course, you
could be right and it took months before the inadequate
fat level affected his skin.

.........Formulated diets don't thrill me too much.
To me the first rule is
Look at the Dog.

Well, they seem like a good starting place and no one
at petdiets has advocated not "looking at the dog."

--Marshall

In article diddy writes:
If you are looking for something specific, tell me and I can probably find
you the page. But my web documentations are about as organized as my desk..
which means it might take awhile.

No, I thought your web pages might be interesting.

I used some Tomlyn Nova Pearls a "moisturizing spray mist" for
dogs and cats that is supposed to hydrate the skin.

http://www.healthypetstore.com/to-0321.html

It seems to have helped. I would be more definite about its
effects but I've only used it once before Max went to bed
last nite and he did no scratch during the night. ;-)

--Marshall