"Beth In Alaska" wrote in message
...




You know.
I'm going to say something thats going to be unpopular, but I'm going to
say it anyway.

I wish that when my samoyed was young and driving me crazy with barking,
that I had debarked him. I didnt' do it because I thought it would be
cruel or somehow unfair. What was unfair is that barking was a constant
source of conflict with the dog, his entire life. Now that he is gone, I
know that he could have barked to his hearts content, if only I had
debarked the dog. It would have been very kind to debark him. I'm sorry
Kavik!! I wasnt' brave enough to do the right thing!!!

So, its something to consider. Dont' let other people tell you how
horrible it is. For some dogs, its NOT horrible or cruel. Its great
kindness


Beth,

It is normal to second guess yourself now. And look at what you've learned
from it.

I have friends that have debarked their dogs and the dogs don't seem any
worse for it.

Beth

One of the problems with bark collars, especially with dogs that have wiry
or wooly coats is contact with the dog's neck. These collars have to be
snug so that both the microphone pickup and the stimulus prongs are in
direct contact with the neck. If a collar is loose it may respond to a bark
at one time and not at another... the dog learns nothing. Loose collars
seem humane but completely eliminate any chance that the dog will learn to
stop barking. When the collar is fitted properly the dog will learn to stop
barking in a very few seconds.
It is important to keep the collar on the dog for a long time (weeks) after
it has learned not to bark. If the dog associates the collar with the
stimulus it will not bark when wearing the collar and will bark when the
collar isn't on the dog.

I have found that dogs learn so rapidly with a bark collar that there isn't
much discomfort... they figure it out by the second bark. Note that modern
bark collars are discriminating, the barking of another dog won't set them
off.
Cj

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in my response. I am
brand new to Usenet. Bark Busters came in and spent four hours
training us (my wife and I) how to train our Poodles. The dogs
responded very well to Bark Buster, but we have had mixed results.
The only way we can have the expected results we want is to be with
the dogs 24-hrs/day, 7 days/week and we just can't do that.

Your suggestion of a trainer that we see repeatedly may be the
answer.

Thanks
George

Blothar is a Wombat

On Sep 30, 9:10 pm, "Beth In Alaska"
wrote:

are they barking indoors or out?

Both indoors and outdoors

Hi Beth,

We have considered the de-barking procedure, and are still leaving it
open as an option. AFA the humanity - we have been told that the dogs
don't realize they are not making a barking sound, so it is somewhat
transparent to them.

We are doing a little more research on the issue that the surgery can
aggravate the dog's coughing. Both Poodles are susceptible to
coughing with the least pressure applied to their esophagus (we hear
this is fairly normal and sounds like they are hacking up a hairball).

Thanks for the suggestion,
George

Hi Bill,

We have heard that the collars need to be on the pups for an extended
time, or they will associate no barking only with wearing the collar.
I'm not sure that's all bad, as I do appreciate the alarm barking (we
live in a suburb of Phoenix and have coyotes and bobcats that are
getting pretty brazen, also rattlesnakes). Hmmm, I guess it would be
a problem if our pups had bark collars on when one of the critters
entered our back yard. Lots to think about!

Thanks,
George

Bill -

BTW I like your crate training suggestion, but bad on us - for the
past 2 years we only use the crates when we are transporting the pups
in the car. Now when they see the crate they think they are going for
a ride.

We may just have to put up with some frustrated barking for awhile to
try your tricks.

George

Blothar von Wombat said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

Thanks for the reply and sorry for the delay in my
response. I am brand new to Usenet. Bark Busters came in
and spent four hours training us (my wife and I) how to
train our Poodles. The dogs responded very well to Bark
Buster, but we have had mixed results. The only way we can
have the expected results we want is to be with the dogs
24-hrs/day, 7 days/week and we just can't do that.

What did they do training-wise? What didn't work? What did
they do on follow-up? One of my dog daycare clients started
Grrring at her dog after a BB training session. It wasn't
effective and I'd like to know whether this was a
misunderstanding on the owner's part or was part of the
recommended training.

I'm being selfish, asking you this stuff; I often get asked
for trainer recommendations - Bark Busters is making a push
into my area and I'd like to hear their pros and cons.

Your suggestion of a trainer that we see repeatedly may be
the answer.

Good. Ask around - especially when you see a pet whose
behaviour you admire.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Hi CJ,

Both the Poodles are clipped in a "Playboy" cut. That clip has the
hair cropped next to the skin all over their bodies with tufts on the
tops of their heads, their ears, their ankles and their tails. This
is a pattern popular in our 100+ degree weather, although the dogs are
almost always in air-conditioning.

Petsmart has told us that we can return bark collars anytime within
the first 30 days if they don't seem to help or appear to aggravate
the situation.

If we use them in the manner that Bill suggested, combine them with
crate training, and also get training that Rocky suggested, we may get
this thing licked. We are at our wit's end, so if all tht doesn't
work, then we will go with what Beth in Alaska suggested.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks,
George

On Oct 1, 10:54 pm, Rocky wrote:
Blothar von Wombat said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

What did they do training-wise? What didn't work? What did
they do on follow-up? One of my dog daycare clients started
Grrring at her dog after a BB training session. It wasn't
effective and I'd like to know whether this was a
misunderstanding on the owner's part or was part of the
recommended training.

I'm being selfish, asking you this stuff; I often get asked
for trainer recommendations - Bark Busters is making a push
into my area and I'd like to hear their pros and cons.

First, BB explained that we always need to stand when correcting the
dogs and crouch when wanting the dogs to come. Second, we received a
spray bottle that has a 10% mix of vinegar to water. Third, we
received small cloth bags with chain links sewn in. Then, it was
explained that in order to stop the barking cycle, we needed to break
the dogs focus. If we were close we would spray with the bottle.
When not close, we toss the cloth bags near the pups. In either case,
we must yell "Bah" in a loud, gravelly, and authoritative voice to
accompany whichever action we selected (there was no mention of
grring). I improvised for the back yard by tossing water balloons,
because I got tired of retrieving the chain-bags.
Next we received quick-release choke-chain leads. These work pretty
well, but cause the dogs to "hack the hairballs."

BB comes back (and has on a couple of occasions) for re-training at no
cost, which seems only fair for the original $700 price. The trainer
also left a full set of instructions that we were to follow. One
directive that has been an absolute bust is insisting that our poodles
not get on the furniture. Poodles and pillows are an absolute
required pair, and having the pillows on the floor does not fool
them. We sit on the furniture, so they have determined they will,
too. All the training accomplished was to have them get off the
furniture until we left the room, then it was back to business as
usual.

The botton line is that I cannot, in good conscience, recommend the BB
approach unless you have at least thirty days to spend training your
dog non-stop. There has to be a better way for working folks.
Besides, the neighbors have told us our yelling "Bah" is as
aggravating as the dog's barking.

George