Hi,

I am not a regular reader of this group, but I wanted to tell a
story. I was walking my dog this evening (on a leash), an Amerian
Eskimo standard 20lbs (9 kilos), when a loose Pit attacked. I quick
picked up my dog and the pit left, I put him back down and it ran back
and I tried to get my dog back up but I couldn't, so I lifted the
leash straight up and his Collar broke. The Pit attacked and
immediately went for my dogs neck. The Pitt was completely on top of
my dog and put his mouth on his neck. I kicked the dog and beat him
with the leash and a passer by hit him with a metal trash can and he
got off and my dog got away, almost getting hit by a car in the chase.
Another second or 2 and my dog would have been dead. My dog is like
one of the familly. I love h im every bit as much as you love your
pit. I cried when I got home (I havn't cried in years) because I
thought he was hurt (he ran home (but wasn't running right) and got
there before I did, he was shaking on my porch bench). Loosing my dog
would be like loosing a familly member. He does appear to be ok now,
he was just really shaken up.

Pit Bulls need to be at minimum, baned from cities, probably suburbs
as well and just be country/farm dogs where the only people and
animals they can attack and kill is their owners and their owners
other pets. Pit Bull lovers stress how important it is to raise these
things in the right environment, but people just aren't doing that.
The reality is, people get the dogs, don't socialize them, mistreat
them, walk them off the leash etc, etc and most of the time, it's
someone else who pays the price, not the dog owner (sometimes it's the
owner or the owners familly, but most of the time it's a neighbor or
neighbors animal). Pit Bulls are too strong and too capable of
killing to be in a city where you have thousands of people in a square
mile, like philadelphia (where this happened). Had this been any
other dog I would have jumped on it and pulled it off my dog, but I
didn't want to loose an arm in the process.
You can't understand how I feel until this happens to you or
someone you love. I always thought Pits were a bit much, but never
thought about it past that, but now that I am a victim (and damn near
the death of my dog) because of other people not raising their dog
right I can see it from a prospective that you can not.

Dogs living in the city/suburbs need to be relocated or killed. That
is the only realistic option. The city can not possibly go out and
inspect every Pit Bull home and be sure that it is being raised
properly and remove the ones that are not. And it's unfair to give
every one the benifit of the doubt and just wait until the dogs kills
someone or some pet before removing/killing. I do believe that every
familly needs to be given the opportunity to relocate their pets, but
within a reasonable time, say 30-60 days. You can always move to the
country if your Pit means that much to you. But in the end, these
dogs are killers and need to be away from people and pets. People
should have the right to own a dog that might turn on them or their
children or other pets, but the general public shouldn't have to share
the risk.


Chris
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
and thats to laugh and smile and dance and sing!
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
and thats to laugh and smile and dance and sing!

"Chris" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I am not a regular reader of this group, but I wanted to tell a
story. I was walking my dog this evening (on a leash), an Amerian
Eskimo standard 20lbs (9 kilos), when a loose Pit attacked. I quick
picked up my dog and the pit left, I put him back down and it ran back
and I tried to get my dog back up but I couldn't, so I lifted the
leash straight up and his Collar broke. The Pit attacked and
immediately went for my dogs neck. The Pitt was completely on top of
my dog and put his mouth on his neck. I kicked the dog and beat him
with the leash and a passer by hit him with a metal trash can and he
got off and my dog got away, almost getting hit by a car in the chase.
Another second or 2 and my dog would have been dead. My dog is like
one of the familly. I love h im every bit as much as you love your
pit. I cried when I got home (I havn't cried in years) because I
thought he was hurt (he ran home (but wasn't running right) and got
there before I did, he was shaking on my porch bench). Loosing my dog
would be like loosing a familly member. He does appear to be ok now,
he was just really shaken up.
snip?
===============
It's amazing that your dog was not hurt. Maybe his hair protected him.
When something like that happens, it shakes everyone up; it's terrifying.
I am glad your dog was not hurt. Do you have a leash law where you live?
If you have a leash law, I would report the loose dog and the attack to the
police. Do you know which house the dog came from, if so, why don't you let
the owner know what his dog did to your dog. If you live in an area where
you have dogs like that running loose, I would definitely carry something
with me. Get a permit to carry pepper spray; you don't want that to happen
to you again.

On Oct 21, 11:59 am, Chris wrote:
Hi,

I am not a regular reader of this group, but I wanted to tell a
story. I was walking my dog this evening (on a leash), an Amerian
Eskimo standard 20lbs (9 kilos), when a loose Pit attacked. I quick
picked up my dog and the pit left, I put him back down and it ran back
and I tried to get my dog back up but I couldn't, so I lifted the
leash straight up and his Collar broke. The Pit attacked and
immediately went for my dogs neck. The Pitt was completely on top of
my dog and put his mouth on his neck. I kicked the dog and beat him
with the leash and a passer by hit him with a metal trash can and he
got off and my dog got away, almost getting hit by a car in the chase.
Another second or 2 and my dog would have been dead. My dog is like
one of the familly. I love h im every bit as much as you love your
pit. I cried when I got home (I havn't cried in years) because I
thought he was hurt (he ran home (but wasn't running right) and got
there before I did, he was shaking on my porch bench). Loosing my dog
would be like loosing a familly member. He does appear to be ok now,
he was just really shaken up.


I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is the fault of a poor
owner. But now I am afraid I am going to have to play devil's
advocate.

Pit Bulls need to be at minimum, baned from cities, probably suburbs
as well and just be country/farm dogs where the only people and
animals they can attack and kill is their owners and their owners
other pets.

If living in the country makes you safe from loose dangerous dogs,
maybe you should move there yourself. Otherwise you will just
encounter a loose dangerous dog in the city of a different breed once
you ban pit bulls.

Pit Bull lovers stress how important it is to raise these
things in the right environment, but people just aren't doing that.
The reality is, people get the dogs, don't socialize them, mistreat
them, walk them off the leash etc, etc and most of the time, it's
someone else who pays the price, not the dog owner (sometimes it's the
owner or the owners familly, but most of the time it's a neighbor or
neighbors animal).

People do all of that with ANY breed of dog. Statistically, dog bites
involve either a close friend or a member of the family the MAJORITY
of the time. Now dog on dog attacks are another story, but it is one
with absolutely no remotely accurate statistics to speak of, so trying
to determine who suffers the most is pure conjecture.

Pit Bulls are too strong and too capable of
killing to be in a city where you have thousands of people in a square
mile, like philadelphia (where this happened). Had this been any
other dog I would have jumped on it and pulled it off my dog, but I
didn't want to loose an arm in the process.

Pit bulls bleed, just like any other dog. Proper knowledge of canine
anatomy and a legally sized pocket knife with a single handed
operation is more than enough to aid in dispatching a dog of any breed
if the need arises. My dog is a part of my family, the canine part.
If he is ever attacked(some have thought about it, but backed down
when he challenged them, thankfully), I will more than gladly risk
injury to myself to eliminate the threat to him. Yoda puts on a good
show when he feels threatened by another large dog, and he could
probably handle his own, but I wouldn't want him to. I'd rather the
blood be on my hands, that way there is no shadow of doubt about my
dog killing the other dog.

You can't understand how I feel until this happens to you or
someone you love. I always thought Pits were a bit much, but never
thought about it past that, but now that I am a victim (and damn near
the death of my dog) because of other people not raising their dog
right I can see it from a prospective that you can not.

Interesting, seeing that I had a cairn terrier killed by another dog
(well, she was too old and had too many problems to warrant the
anesthesia required to attempt to repair the damage to her jugular
vein which had been grazed). I don't feel the same way you do
though. It's the owner's fault, not the breed's.


Dogs living in the city/suburbs need to be relocated or killed. That
is the only realistic option. The city can not possibly go out and
inspect every Pit Bull home and be sure that it is being raised
properly and remove the ones that are not. And it's unfair to give
every one the benifit of the doubt and just wait until the dogs kills
someone or some pet before removing/killing.

Prove that a dog of any specific breed is guaranteed to be involved in
an attack. You can't because the majority of them DO NOT, that is why
they give them the benefit of the doubt.

I do believe that every
familly needs to be given the opportunity to relocate their pets, but
within a reasonable time, say 30-60 days. You can always move to the
country if your Pit means that much to you.

Have you ever tried to move in 30-60 days? Most likely your house
will not sell if you have a house, and then you are stuck trying to
get a second mortgage without a down payment, in the current housing
market. It isn't fair to expect that of anyone, as it is not possible
to pull it off unless you are extremely lucky.

But in the end, these
dogs are killers and need to be away from people and pets. People
should have the right to own a dog that might turn on them or their
children or other pets, but the general public shouldn't have to share
the risk.

If you feel it is so risky, move to the country where according to
you, you are safe from loose dangerous dogs. Better yet, try and move
there in the next 30-60 days.

Nick

On 10/22/2007 11:52 AM plucked
Senior Frog's Magic Twanger and said:
On Oct 21, 11:59 am, Chris wrote:

Hi,

I am not a regular reader of this group, but I wanted to tell a
story. I was walking my dog this evening (on a leash), an Amerian
Eskimo standard 20lbs (9 kilos), when a loose Pit attacked. I quick
picked up my dog and the pit left, I put him back down and it ran back
and I tried to get my dog back up but I couldn't, so I lifted the
leash straight up and his Collar broke. The Pit attacked and
immediately went for my dogs neck. The Pitt was completely on top of
my dog and put his mouth on his neck. I kicked the dog and beat him
with the leash and a passer by hit him with a metal trash can and he
got off and my dog got away, almost getting hit by a car in the chase.
Another second or 2 and my dog would have been dead. My dog is like
one of the familly. I love h im every bit as much as you love your
pit. I cried when I got home (I havn't cried in years) because I
thought he was hurt (he ran home (but wasn't running right) and got
there before I did, he was shaking on my porch bench). Loosing my dog
would be like loosing a familly member. He does appear to be ok now,
he was just really shaken up.



I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is the fault of a poor
owner. But now I am afraid I am going to have to play devil's
advocate.


Pit Bulls need to be at minimum, baned from cities, probably suburbs
as well and just be country/farm dogs where the only people and
animals they can attack and kill is their owners and their owners
other pets.


If living in the country makes you safe from loose dangerous dogs,
maybe you should move there yourself. Otherwise you will just
encounter a loose dangerous dog in the city of a different breed once
you ban pit bulls.


Pit Bull lovers stress how important it is to raise these
things in the right environment, but people just aren't doing that.
The reality is, people get the dogs, don't socialize them, mistreat
them, walk them off the leash etc, etc and most of the time, it's
someone else who pays the price, not the dog owner (sometimes it's the
owner or the owners familly, but most of the time it's a neighbor or
neighbors animal).


People do all of that with ANY breed of dog. Statistically, dog bites
involve either a close friend or a member of the family the MAJORITY
of the time. Now dog on dog attacks are another story, but it is one
with absolutely no remotely accurate statistics to speak of, so trying
to determine who suffers the most is pure conjecture.


Pit Bulls are too strong and too capable of
killing to be in a city where you have thousands of people in a square
mile, like philadelphia (where this happened). Had this been any
other dog I would have jumped on it and pulled it off my dog, but I
didn't want to loose an arm in the process.


Pit bulls bleed, just like any other dog. Proper knowledge of canine
anatomy and a legally sized pocket knife with a single handed
operation is more than enough to aid in dispatching a dog of any breed
if the need arises. My dog is a part of my family, the canine part.
If he is ever attacked(some have thought about it, but backed down
when he challenged them, thankfully), I will more than gladly risk
injury to myself to eliminate the threat to him. Yoda puts on a good
show when he feels threatened by another large dog, and he could
probably handle his own, but I wouldn't want him to. I'd rather the
blood be on my hands, that way there is no shadow of doubt about my
dog killing the other dog.


You can't understand how I feel until this happens to you or
someone you love. I always thought Pits were a bit much, but never
thought about it past that, but now that I am a victim (and damn near
the death of my dog) because of other people not raising their dog
right I can see it from a prospective that you can not.


Interesting, seeing that I had a cairn terrier killed by another dog
(well, she was too old and had too many problems to warrant the
anesthesia required to attempt to repair the damage to her jugular
vein which had been grazed). I don't feel the same way you do
though. It's the owner's fault, not the breed's.


Dogs living in the city/suburbs need to be relocated or killed. That
is the only realistic option. The city can not possibly go out and
inspect every Pit Bull home and be sure that it is being raised
properly and remove the ones that are not. And it's unfair to give
every one the benifit of the doubt and just wait until the dogs kills
someone or some pet before removing/killing.


Prove that a dog of any specific breed is guaranteed to be involved in
an attack. You can't because the majority of them DO NOT, that is why
they give them the benefit of the doubt.


I do believe that every
familly needs to be given the opportunity to relocate their pets, but
within a reasonable time, say 30-60 days. You can always move to the
country if your Pit means that much to you.


Have you ever tried to move in 30-60 days? Most likely your house
will not sell if you have a house, and then you are stuck trying to
get a second mortgage without a down payment, in the current housing
market. It isn't fair to expect that of anyone, as it is not possible
to pull it off unless you are extremely lucky.


But in the end, these
dogs are killers and need to be away from people and pets. People
should have the right to own a dog that might turn on them or their
children or other pets, but the general public shouldn't have to share
the risk.


If you feel it is so risky, move to the country where according to
you, you are safe from loose dangerous dogs. Better yet, try and move
there in the next 30-60 days.

Nick


Pits were raised to be fighters. Surprisingly, even though it's in their
genotype, a Staffordshire Terrier-Pit Bull will not attack another dog
or human unless provoked. In other words the dog has to be trained to
fight. If they are not trained to attack; they won't.

My niece has a Stafffie, Samantha. They got her as a pup from a rescue
group. Sam has a little notch missing from one of her ears. The
thinking is she was used for bait in a fighting dog ring but was saved
before things progressed. My niece and her husband have done a wonderful
job, obedience training Sam. I've never met a more will mannered lovable
dog. Her only flaw, if you can call it that, is Sam thinks she's a lap
dog. It's really funny to watch as Sam's front end and rear end don't
fit on a lap. But, still she's gotta try. On Halloween, this "man and
dog killer" gets into a pumpkin costume and greets children at the door
while holding a basket of candy in her mouth. Jeff and Kathleen also
have a blind pet ferret. Sam likes the ferret, she will gently play
with it and mind it if it gets out of its cage when Jeff and Kathleen
are out. Sam doesn't mind it even when Cecil bites her on the nose.
Samantha knows her strength; she plays easy with children and old folks.

Chris don't tell me that I can't know how you feel. I lost a black
cocker mix to cancer of the bladder. It's not an easy way to go. Cancer
is a bigger killer of dogs and cats then aggressive dogs. I had a black
cat with zebra undercoat that was felled by 'saddle thrombosis' and she
died of a stroke. From what I hear, both you and your dog came out of
this incident unharmed. Sure it's scary and deeply unsettling. But,
you can't condemn an entire breed for the behavior of one bad dog. I
agree with the previous poster (PP) It's not the dog but the owner who
is at fault here.

--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

On Mar 30, 9:43*pm, Brian K wrote:

Pits were raised to be fighters. Surprisingly, even though it's in their
genotype, a Staffordshire Terrier-Pit Bull will not attack another dog
or human unless provoked. In other words the dog has to be trained to
fight. *If they are not trained to attack; they won't.


More nonsense from Pitbull apologists. PB's not trained to be fighters
attack all the time.

One thing the OP from Oct. 07 left out is killing that pit. It's
proven itself to be dangerous, it dies. I wouldn't have left it alive
and I wouldn't need any damn pocket knife to do it.

Pit Bulls need to be at minimum, baned from cities, probably suburbs
as well and just be country/farm dogs where the only people and
animals they can attack and kill is their owners and their owners
other pets.

A couple of comments for you. I'm sure its already been said in other
posts....but.

I know quite a number of Pit Bulls. Not a one of them is dangerous. I far
more small dogs than big dogs that I would classify as dangerous (i.e.
likely to draw blood).

Even *if* you conclude that Pit Bulls need to be banned, how do you intend
to enforce the law. How do you identify a dog as a Pit Bull. The Ontario Law
calls a pit bull, any dog of Breed X, Y, Z or one substantially resembling
X, Y, Z.
On who should the onus be to prove a dog is a "Pit Bull". What about a dog
that is 1/8th of a 'pit breed'. What about a dog that looks like a pit bull,
but has no relation to them? I've had a number of people comment to me that
my (pure bred) lab looks like he's got some pit bull in him. If he was a
mixed breed, and pit bulls were banned, would I be in trouble? Would I have
to proove that he wasn't a pit bull? This seems counter to the principle
that most people believe underlies the legal system --- innocent until
proven guilty. Other than a pure bred dog, how *can* you proove that your
dog isn't a particular breed anyways?
If enacting a breed ban against a particular breed were likely to solve the
problem of dangerous dogs without too much collateral damage, then I'd be
all for it. The fact of the matter it won't. From
http://www.theblackpaper.org/ (interesting read if you have time)

"there [is] no region which could prove a reduction in the number, or
severity, of dog bites as the result of banning one or more dog breeds."

On 3/30/2008 10:57 PM Dale Atkin plucked Senior Frog's Magic Twanger
and said:
Pit Bulls need to be at minimum, baned from cities, probably suburbs
as well and just be country/farm dogs where the only people and
animals they can attack and kill is their owners and their owners
other pets.


A couple of comments for you. I'm sure its already been said in other
posts....but.

I know quite a number of Pit Bulls. Not a one of them is dangerous. I far
more small dogs than big dogs that I would classify as dangerous (i.e.
likely to draw blood).

Even *if* you conclude that Pit Bulls need to be banned, how do you intend
to enforce the law. How do you identify a dog as a Pit Bull. The Ontario Law
calls a pit bull, any dog of Breed X, Y, Z or one substantially resembling
X, Y, Z.
On who should the onus be to prove a dog is a "Pit Bull". What about a dog
that is 1/8th of a 'pit breed'. What about a dog that looks like a pit bull,
but has no relation to them? I've had a number of people comment to me that
my (pure bred) lab looks like he's got some pit bull in him. If he was a
mixed breed, and pit bulls were banned, would I be in trouble? Would I have
to proove that he wasn't a pit bull? This seems counter to the principle
that most people believe underlies the legal system --- innocent until
proven guilty. Other than a pure bred dog, how *can* you proove that your
dog isn't a particular breed anyways?
If enacting a breed ban against a particular breed were likely to solve the
problem of dangerous dogs without too much collateral damage, then I'd be
all for it. The fact of the matter it won't. From
http://www.theblackpaper.org/ (interesting read if you have time)

"there [is] no region which could prove a reduction in the number, or
severity, of dog bites as the result of banning one or more dog breeds."



Mayor Bloomberg issued a ban of Pit Bulls in New York City. As far as I
can tell the only way it's enforced is if A) somebody rats on an owner
and calls Animal Control, B) a landlord wants to gentrify an apartment
and turns in a tenant. If the tenant won't part with his dog, the
landlord is justified in evicting the tenant., C) the dog gets into
trouble or is accused of being aggressive, D) police break up a dog
fighting ring which is the main intent of the ban. Interestingly, since
the Pit Bull ban in NYC there has been a rise in cock fighting and
"fight clubs". So the perpetrators of Pit Bull fights have merely
substitute roosters and humans in their illegal fights. So it really
hasn't stopped illegal fighting. The win fall from this ban is now
unscrupulous land lords wishing to evict rent paying tenants have yet
another way to do it. Its made more work for the SPCA in New York.
Stray and abused Pit Bulls that come under their care can no longer be
put up for adoption when they meet temperament tests. They have to farm
these non-aggressive pit bulls out to rescue groups outside the city.
It taxes the resources of the SPCA and those of the rescue group.

For those of you rabid for breed extermination. The town next to me used
to run a "kill" shelter. Dogs had a week to be adopted then they were
"euthanized". They stopped this practice. I asked one of the animal
control officer why the change in policy. Here's an interesting fact I
learned. It takes more resources to humanely kill an animal than it
does to increase efforts for adoption. They've done some novel things
to turn their shelter around. For example a pit bull that is human
friendly but dog aggressive is placed in an environment, like a farm,
where there are no other dogs. A pack of Chihuahuas that are human
aggressive are placed on a free range chicken farm. where they will
guard the chickens from wolves and wild dogs. One vicious Chihuahua is
kind of a joke but six of them are scary dangerous.

--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

In article ,
Brian K wrote:

Terrier-Pit Bull will not attack another dog
or human unless provoked. In other words the dog has to be trained to
fight. If they are not trained to attack; they won't.

Where did you get that little gem?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

yea this is kind of funny, dogs aren't agressive unless trained to be
so......yea right!!!

While I've never had a pit I have had a crazy ass lab/husky mix who thought
that regardless of size that it could take on any damned dog it pleased. He
was never abused and certainly not trained to do so he just hated other
dogs. His whole life he only ever got along with 3 other dogs one of them a
stray that I took in and my sisters chi hua hua's.

Celesge

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian K wrote:

Terrier-Pit Bull will not attack another dog
or human unless provoked. In other words the dog has to be trained to
fight. If they are not trained to attack; they won't.

Where did you get that little gem?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

For those of you rabid for breed extermination. The town next to me used
to run a "kill" shelter. Dogs had a week to be adopted then they were
"euthanized". They stopped this practice. I asked one of the animal
control officer why the change in policy. Here's an interesting fact I
learned. It takes more resources to humanely kill an animal than it does
to increase efforts for adoption.

Do you mean to say they are now running a 'no-kill', open door shelter? I'd
like to see that. On some scales I can see this being true, but in the
broader sense I have my doubts. The problem is, there just aren't always
enough of the right homes available, or space to keep the animals while you
locate the right home, regardless of resources thrown at it.
As a case in point, how many packs of human aggressive chihuahuas do you
think you could place? I'm surprised they even found one. Imagine now that
another pack comes in... then what do you do? Do you keep them around until
the right home shows up? What if a pack of puppies then comes in?
In some sense, you always have to prioritize your resources. Sometimes this
means euthanasia, although as you point out, the resources involved in
euthanizing an animal are not nil.

One vicious Chihuahua is kind of a joke

Dunno, I wouldn't like to be confronted with one, although it might be funny
to watch on some kind of sitcom.

Dale