Hello all

Apologies if this has been asked a gazillion times, but am desperate to get
rid of fleas but am reading so many contradictory things (vet's closed for
the night) and I respect the judgement and knowledge of posters here. Is
garlic OK? Cooked or raw? mixed with their food? I discovered the fleas
on only one of my dogs and got Frontline Plus and applied it on Sunday but
they seem to be getting worse. I have used a fogger in the house and washed
all bedding and vacuumed too, but still they seem to be multiplying!!
Strangely, my other dog doesn't have any (was hesitant to use Frontline on
him anyway as he has cancer; waiting to hear back from holistic vet re
this).

Want to try and feed them both some fish with garlic tonight to see if this
will abate the onslaught!! (I haven't been affected either but
psychologically...!!)
So cheers for any advice...
Mags

On Oct 24, 4:41 am, "Mags" wrote:
Hello all

Apologies if this has been asked a gazillion times, but am desperate to get
rid of fleas but am reading so many contradictory things (vet's closed for
the night) and I respect the judgement and knowledge of posters here. Is
garlic OK? Cooked or raw? mixed with their food? I discovered the fleas
on only one of my dogs and got Frontline Plus and applied it on Sunday but
they seem to be getting worse. I have used a fogger in the house and washed
all bedding and vacuumed too, but still they seem to be multiplying!!
Strangely, my other dog doesn't have any (was hesitant to use Frontline on
him anyway as he has cancer; waiting to hear back from holistic vet re
this).

Want to try and feed them both some fish with garlic tonight to see if this
will abate the onslaught!! (I haven't been affected either but
psychologically...!!)
So cheers for any advice...
Mags

I wouldn't. While it might work, there is potentially a very high
cost:
http://www.petsbynature.com/Garlic.htm
says the side effects of feeding garlic to dogs "...include vomiting,
diarrhea, anemia, tachycardia [irregular heart beat] weakness, liver
damage, allergic reactions, asthmatic attacks, contact dermatitis, and
gastrointestinal damage."

I'd consult with your vet for another option.
--Glenn Lyford

"Mags" wrote in message
...
I discovered the fleas
on only one of my dogs and got Frontline Plus and applied it on Sunday but
they seem to be getting worse. I have used a fogger in the house and
washed
all bedding and vacuumed too, but still they seem to be multiplying!!

............why do you think they're getting worse? Is your dog scratching
frantically now? Sometimes the spot on treatments cause hyperactivity in
the fleas before they croak so it only seems like they're worse.

.......garlic isn't an instant treatment and I doubt it will help you. Get a
jar and pour some isopropyl achohol in it. Get a comb with close together
teeth - I just use human combs. Comb your dog for 10 minutes 2 times a day
in the high flea areas (head,neck and above tail) and when the fleas get
caught in the comb, dunk it in the alcohol. You can get a lot of fleas just
by combing but after 10 minutes they're on the run and you won't find them.

.......foggers do nothing - the fleas aren't on the ceiling but the floor.
Toss out that vacuum cleaner bag, and after you've combed your dog, sweep
the floors again - 2 times a day. A sweeper won't pick up larvae, but it
will pick up adults. If you don't want to toss the bag every time you
sweep, put it in a plastic bag, tie it shut and toss it in the freezer
between times.

.......Either use Flea Busters or an insect growth regulator like Precor on
your carpets.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

"buglady" wrote in message
...

"Mags" wrote in message
...
I discovered the fleas
on only one of my dogs and got Frontline Plus and applied it on Sunday
but
they seem to be getting worse. I have used a fogger in the house and
washed
all bedding and vacuumed too, but still they seem to be multiplying!!

...........why do you think they're getting worse? Is your dog scratching
frantically now? Sometimes the spot on treatments cause hyperactivity in
the fleas before they croak so it only seems like they're worse.

......garlic isn't an instant treatment and I doubt it will help you. Get
a
jar and pour some isopropyl achohol in it. Get a comb with close together
teeth - I just use human combs. Comb your dog for 10 minutes 2 times a
day
in the high flea areas (head,neck and above tail) and when the fleas get
caught in the comb, dunk it in the alcohol. You can get a lot of fleas
just
by combing but after 10 minutes they're on the run and you won't find
them.

......foggers do nothing - the fleas aren't on the ceiling but the floor.
Toss out that vacuum cleaner bag, and after you've combed your dog, sweep
the floors again - 2 times a day. A sweeper won't pick up larvae, but it
will pick up adults. If you don't want to toss the bag every time you
sweep, put it in a plastic bag, tie it shut and toss it in the freezer
between times.

......Either use Flea Busters or an insect growth regulator like Precor on
your carpets.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


Thanks for your replies! From only seeing a few fleas on my dog there are
now many many more, so I assumed they were spreading. Will get the alcohol
and try that. I've got a bagless vacuum and emptied and cleaned it after
each vacuum.
Cheers
Mags

"Mags" wrote in message
...

Thanks for your replies! From only seeing a few fleas on my dog there are
now many many more, so I assumed they were spreading. Will get the
alcohol and try that. I've got a bagless vacuum and emptied and cleaned
it after each vacuum.

You can also apply other finely-ground boric acid powder (often sold to kill
cockroaches indoors) to your carpets to kill the fleas indoors.

If you're having a very bad infestation, and you have a yard, you should
apply a granular yard insecticide. IMO a flea infestation is no time to
consider "all-natural" products, because they don't work well enough. You
need to take a multi-pronged, chemical approach.

And as mentioned, please don't use garlic.

flick 100785

......foggers do nothing - the fleas aren't on the ceiling but the floor.
Toss out that vacuum cleaner bag, and after you've combed your dog, sweep
the floors again - 2 times a day. A sweeper won't pick up larvae, but it
will pick up adults. If you don't want to toss the bag every time you
sweep, put it in a plastic bag, tie it shut and toss it in the freezer
between times.

Or put those useless flea collars to work and put a cheap one in the bag.

A flea allergy could also be the culprit for itching. It only takes a bite
or two.

"Sharon Too" wrote in message
...
......foggers do nothing - the fleas aren't on the ceiling but the floor.
Toss out that vacuum cleaner bag, and after you've combed your dog, sweep
the floors again - 2 times a day. A sweeper won't pick up larvae, but it
will pick up adults. If you don't want to toss the bag every time you
sweep, put it in a plastic bag, tie it shut and toss it in the freezer
between times.

Or put those useless flea collars to work and put a cheap one in the bag.

A flea allergy could also be the culprit for itching. It only takes a bite
or two.

They're definitely spreading, as I'm now covered in bites and found one in
my bed this am!! My vet did say garlic was OK in small doses, but it
doesn't seem to be doing much :-( Am combing her as suggested too.
Strangely enough, I haven't spotted any on my other dog; wonder what his
secret is!!
Will keep trying all suggestions
thanks
mags

"Mags" wrote in newsgbUi.5345
:

Will keep trying all suggestions

Garlic is not going to even make a dent in the fleas. You really
need to get out the heavy artillery. Fleas are not just a minor
irritant; if you have an infestation, they can seriously impact your
dogs' health.

Treat *both* dogs--whether you see fleas on the other one or not--
with topical meds like Frontline, Advantage, or Advantix--and the
environment with a spray like Siphotrol.

http://www.vetkem.com/products_dogs_HT_siphotrol.htm

FWIW I tried treating the carpet with boric acid (the fleas laughed
at that). I then tried Zodiac indoor spray combined with Frontline
Plus and Advantage (at two different times). Neither worked. I
finally broke down and bought Siphotrol and used a new (to me anyway)
topical called Sentry (containing cyphenothrin and pyriproxfen). My
reasoning was that the fleas seemed to be immune to the other
topicals, so something new was called for. That worked, but I had to
retreat after a couple of weeks, when the eggs hatched out, despite
the fact that both the topical and the spray should have killed the
eggs, too.

This is the first time I've had a flea problem in *years*, and when I
had them back then, they were easy to get rid of. This seems to have
been a horrible year for fleas, at least locally.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Shelly schrieb:

"Mags" wrote in newsgbUi.5345
:


Will keep trying all suggestions


Garlic is not going to even make a dent in the fleas. You really
need to get out the heavy artillery. Fleas are not just a minor
irritant; if you have an infestation, they can seriously impact your
dogs' health.

Treat *both* dogs--whether you see fleas on the other one or not--
with topical meds like Frontline, Advantage, or Advantix--and the
environment with a spray like Siphotrol.

http://www.vetkem.com/products_dogs_HT_siphotrol.htm

FWIW I tried treating the carpet with boric acid (the fleas laughed
at that). I then tried Zodiac indoor spray combined with Frontline
Plus and Advantage (at two different times). Neither worked. I
finally broke down and bought Siphotrol and used a new (to me anyway)
topical called Sentry (containing cyphenothrin and pyriproxfen). My
reasoning was that the fleas seemed to be immune to the other
topicals, so something new was called for. That worked, but I had to
retreat after a couple of weeks, when the eggs hatched out, despite
the fact that both the topical and the spray should have killed the
eggs, too.

This is the first time I've had a flea problem in *years*, and when I
had them back then, they were easy to get rid of. This seems to have
been a horrible year for fleas, at least locally.


Maybe it's not a coincidence? The fleas could be developing immunity to
the ever heavier artillery.

I'd go with buglady's suggestions: labour-intensive but well worth it.

All the best,
Sally

"Shelly" wrote in message
...
FWIW I tried treating the carpet with boric acid (the fleas laughed
at that).
........Flea Busters is a more carpet friendly form of borax and formulated
to use less:
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/produc...0CC867-B0A1-4C
9A-87EA-8A59FDD3A30B&click=6875&mf=2

................To be really effective borax needs to stay in the carpet and
while instructions vary, it seems you shouldn't sweep for at least a week
(not with Flea Busters though). I've only tried borax once and I didn't
like all the powder I could see in the carpet. It's really hard to just
sprinkle it on and not get clumps of it sitting there. Pets can inhale this
stuff since they're down there next to it.

I then tried Zodiac indoor spray
..........I've used that too - it's a pump spray which results uneven droplet
size coming out and really uneven coverage......and the additives they put
in make it stink! Not to mention your finger wears out applying the whole
bottle.

combined with Frontline
Plus and Advantage (at two different times). Neither worked. I
finally broke down and bought Siphotrol and used a new (to me anyway)
topical called Sentry (containing cyphenothrin and pyriproxfen).

...........Pyriproxfen is a new generation IGR which is stable in sunlight.
Precor is methoprene and degrades in sunlight. Cyphenothrin is a
pyrethroid: http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...Rec_Id=PC33508
(and for those who don't know, NOT to be used on cats!).

........and yikes, insects seem capable of developing resistance to IGRs. So
best to rotate those chemicals. For the least non-toxic products for inside
the home, personally I'd rotate between Precor alone and Flea Busters (which
kills mechanically, not chemically). It appears this IGR is fairly widely
used both in agriculture and food animal industry. My theory has always
been that the more widely it's used, the more widely it's disseminated in
the environment, exposing other pest species and fostering resistance:
http://arsserv0.tamu.edu/research/pu...m?seq_no_115=1
39182

My
reasoning was that the fleas seemed to be immune to the other
topicals, so something new was called for. That worked, but I had to
retreat after a couple of weeks, when the eggs hatched out, despite
the fact that both the topical and the spray should have killed the
eggs, too.

...........Precor (what is in Siphotrol) doesn't kill eggs. It's an IGR
(insect growth regulator), which keeps the fleas from moulting to the next
stage. For this reason they take a while to work.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IG106
*IGRs are the most effective weapon in the flea control arsenal. They are
effective at very low concentrations ( 10 ppb) and have virtually no
mammalian toxicity. They mimic insect hormones and act on insects by
interfering with their normal development. If you can tolerate fleas for the
time it takes these compounds to eliminate a flea population, IGRs are
effective by themselves. Expect to wait 2 weeks before noticeable flea
reductions and 1-2 months before complete control.*


.....Sweeping takes care of adults, some eggs and larvae (though I heard
otherwise elsewhere) but not pupae (according to the above site), the IGR
keeps the fleas from becoming adults and the topicals kill the adults. I
really had to search to find the adulticide in Siphotrol- which is
permethrin, something I wouldn't use if there's cats in the house. Most of
these sprays also contain some kind of adulticide besides the IGR.

.......I think unless you really soak the item you're spraying, it's easy to
miss parts of the carpet. I've noticed that any of these products don't
really cover the sq footage they claim if you're really going to spray
everything evenly and thoroughly. I don't think washing bedding once a week
is enough either in a real infestation.

Creepy flea fact:
http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.co...efront/4721d88
a06889cf4273f4200c15f0685/Product/View/A220
Current studies indicate that adult fleas account for only 5% of the total
flea population in any given situation. Eggs account for 50%, larvae account
for about 35%, and the remaining 10% are the pupal cocoons. That means that
for every single adult flea living on your dog or cat, there are 10 eggs, 7
larvae, and 2 cocoons.

........and interestingly just straight Precor is once again available!
Years ago I bought just Precor and was very happy with it as it had no
horrible smell, then it disappeared as a single product. I'd just rather
not use those products with permethrin with so many cats in the house. I
used one of those 5 gallon pump sprayers which has good coverage and uniform
droplet size.
http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/pr...rate-p-72.html
One bottle 8.50
http://www.cooperseeds.com/froogle.php3?prod=936
Buy 10 - 1 oz bottles for 39.95

buglady
take out the dog before replying