While getting together with relatives over Christmas I noticed a
nephew of mine had a new
dog and was trying to discipline and train it with some kind of an
electric shock collar and hand
held device that operated it, when the dog misbehaved it got a shock
and gave out a painful
sounding yelp. I think this is rather cruel, any comments?

stonej spoke these words of wisdom in
:

While getting together with relatives over Christmas I noticed a
nephew of mine had a new
dog and was trying to discipline and train it with some kind of an
electric shock collar and hand
held device that operated it, when the dog misbehaved it got a shock
and gave out a painful
sounding yelp. I think this is rather cruel, any comments?


If your nephew is trying to make a remote control toy out of a dog that has
no idea what is right and what is wrong, it's being abused. A handler
should have training in handling an e-collar. A handler should have
training in how to train a dog PERIOD.

I exhausted every effort to break my dog from a problem, I consulted
experts on my issue. And I finally concluded that I could justify the use
of an e-collar, because i could not find an alternative to break him of his
issue.

So I consulted an experienced e-collar Guru (Lou Castle) and discussed the
problem and how to set up the training program, and used the e-collar and
fixed the problem.

Humanely used, and conscientiously guided, I do not think e-collars are
inhumane. But it sounds like the poor puppy of your nephews..IS being
mistreated.

diddy none wrote in news:Xns9A127073F9EF6diddydiddynet@
216.196.97.142:

But it sounds like the poor puppy of your nephews..IS being
mistreated.

Do you think there really is a puppy? Or a nephew, for that matter?
That post reeked to high heavens of troll.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

On Dec 26, 1:22*pm, Shelly wrote:
diddy none wrote in news:Xns9A127073F9EF6diddydiddynet@
216.196.97.142:

But it sounds like the poor puppy of your nephews..IS being
mistreated.

Do you think there really is a puppy? *Or a nephew, for that matter? *
That post reeked to high heavens of troll.

--
Shellyhttp://www.cat-sidh.net(the Mother Ship)http://esther.cat-sidh.net(Letters to Esther)


I can assure you that this story is not made up, I witnessed it with
my own eyes, you are free to believe
as you wish.

Shelly spoke these words of wisdom in news:fku65q
:

diddy none wrote in news:Xns9A127073F9EF6diddydiddynet@
216.196.97.142:

But it sounds like the poor puppy of your nephews..IS being
mistreated.

Do you think there really is a puppy? Or a nephew, for that matter?
That post reeked to high heavens of troll.


I've seen experienced trainers abuse them to the point I called the humane
society and reported it to an AKC REP (AT A SHOW, E-collar use at any show
site is illegal during hours of the show)

The particular dog in question is the youngest ever Master Hunter
(Pointing) It was a German Shorthair. Wonderful puppy, but the abuse he
took to make him that way was awful. He got his Master Hunter title at 6
months and just a few days (attending two different tests the same day)

His screams and shrieks went on throughout the night.

If a professional trainer would do that, it's entirely possible that in the
hands of a newbie, an e-collar is abused. So I'm not going to automagically
assume "Troll"

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:44:51 -0800 (PST), stonej
wrote:

While getting together with relatives over Christmas I noticed a
nephew of mine had a new
dog and was trying to discipline and train it with some kind of an
electric shock collar and hand
held device that operated it, when the dog misbehaved it got a shock
and gave out a painful
sounding yelp. I think this is rather cruel, any comments?

Yes, it's not only cruel, but it's totally unnecessary.

Insist that your nephew get the assistance of a knowledgeable e-collar
trainer, one who will show him the proper way to use the e-collar, and
then inform him that you will kick his little ass up and down the
street if he doesn't.

And keep in mind that it isn't the e-collar here, it's your *nephew*
who's at fault.

And you'll share in the blame if *you* don't do something about it.

And good luck!

PS: I was just kidding about kicking his ass. Just slap him upside the
head a few times, like my wonderful wife does to me.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

"stonej" wrote:

I think this is rather cruel, any comments?

Electric collars can be very useful, and humane, if used correctly.
However, from the little you describe, what you witnessed doesn't sound like
correct use.
Correct use for training is to teach the dog that the collar tap means
something specfic, and/or to teach the dog what response will turn the tap
off. This teaching is done with the collar at a very low level, and actual
training is not done until the dog clearly understands what the collar tap
means.

INCORRECT usage is to stick the collar on the dog, sans pre-training, and
just zap when the dog does something you don't like - that doesn't teach the
dog anything, and may very well have unintended consquences; the dog may
develop unwanted associations to the correction, and those associations may
lead either to irrational fear of, or aggression towards, the object of
association.

diddy none wrote in
:

I've seen experienced trainers abuse them to the point I called
the humane society and reported it to an AKC REP (AT A SHOW,
E-collar use at any show site is illegal during hours of the show)

I don't doubt that it happens. I just think that, in this case, the
OP is trolling.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"sionnach" wrote:

Electric collars can be very useful, and humane, if used correctly.

I forgot to add - the shock of an e-collar isn't like a painful static
shock, but a muscle stimulation like a TENS machine. It can be startling,
and definitely uncomfortable at higher levels, but I've not found it
actually painful.
However, that doesn't negate the fact that it is NOT a tool to be used
casually, and that it's far too easy to accidentally get very bad, unwanted
results from using one improperly.
Even properly used, it's not appropriate for all dogs. I used one with my
Jack Russell Terrier as part of her final off-leash training, and it didn't
bother her at all, but it's too strong a tool - even on low levels - for my
extremely sensitive and soft lurcher.

"sionnach" spoke these words of wisdom in
:


"sionnach" wrote:

Electric collars can be very useful, and humane, if used correctly.

I forgot to add - the shock of an e-collar isn't like a painful static
shock, but a muscle stimulation like a TENS machine. It can be
startling, and definitely uncomfortable at higher levels, but I've not
found it actually painful.
However, that doesn't negate the fact that it is NOT a tool to be used
casually, and that it's far too easy to accidentally get very bad,
unwanted results from using one improperly.
Even properly used, it's not appropriate for all dogs. I used one with
my Jack Russell Terrier as part of her final off-leash training, and it
didn't bother her at all, but it's too strong a tool - even on low
levels - for my extremely sensitive and soft lurcher.





Exactly. I wouldn't think of using one on very suggestive Reka. When she
was a puppy, she went to the basement while we were working on the water
heater. She passed by a bare wire , got zapped, and has (almost 7 years
later) never gone to the basement again. She incorrectly associated the zap
with the area in which it happened.
But using anything above a Tshhkt is innappropriate for Reka

Tuck, OTOH, takes a correction, takes note, harbors no hard feelings, and
is entirely a candidate for correct e-collar use.