Janet Boss spoke these words of wisdom
in :

In article ,
"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

Muttley was found in a bad "hood"
where I'm sure he was abused, and certainly neglected, since he was
running wild on the streets.

Why are you certain he was abused? It's all your fantasy about him.


Perhaps because Paul's romantic perceptions will it so?
I have no doubts about the neglect part. But even with neglect, in the
short time Muttley was obtained by Paul and made a net appearance, he has
never appeared to be starved or scarred.

And dogs recover from things pretty quickly. I've seen many abuse cases
(legitimate) AND neglect cases (Legitimate) and I've seen many abused and
neglected dogs rebound resiliantly.
I've also seen many poor temperaments be assumed to be abuse/neglect cases,
when in fact, they are not at all.

Muttley's past, whatever it was, is now his history, and he shows no
scarring from it, so his past is irrevelant except for Paul's romantic
perceptions.... whatever they are.

Dog's generally do not hold on to the past the way we do, unless there was
particularly a traumatic event.

My bet is, Muttley probably actually had a pretty good time being a nomadic
dog. Too bad Paul can't ask him.

In article , diddy none
wrote:


Perhaps because Paul's romantic perceptions will it so?
I have no doubts about the neglect part. But even with neglect, in the
short time Muttley was obtained by Paul and made a net appearance, he has
never appeared to be starved or scarred.

Muttley's past, whatever it was, is now his history, and he shows no
scarring from it, so his past is irrevelant except for Paul's romantic
perceptions.... whatever they are.


Absolutely. Not that neglect isn't a FORM of abuse, but it isn't what
people are generally referring to as abuse (particularly not when they
also mention neglect). I get a lot of students who think like this. I
tell everyone the same thing - "today if the first day of the rest of
the dog's life". Move on.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message:

Sure. My not-quite six month-old pup inhales his food with little
regard to whether or not it's actually food. Clearly that's due to
abuse or neglect by humans.

Of my two dogs, the one that has not had a bad day in her life is the one
that acts like she hasn't ever been fed. Khan is a pretty slow eater. Of
my friend's two dogs, the little Min-Pin that they've had since puppyhood is
an indiscriminant eater. The one that they picked up at the shelter is not
terribly interested in food (unless it's a bunnykins that she hunted for
herself). I could go on and on.

Suja

Janet Boss spoke these words of wisdom
in :

Absolutely. Not that neglect isn't a FORM of abuse, but it isn't what
people are generally referring to as abuse (particularly not when they
also mention neglect). I get a lot of students who think like this. I
tell everyone the same thing - "today if the first day of the rest of
the dog's life". Move on.


I have a friend who has a two year old dog, and got it from the pound at 6
weeks old. She feels the dog has been traumatized by it's being in the
pound and that's why it's the worst behaved dog on the planet (well almost)

That dog had no concept of it's being in a high kill shelter, and I'm
positive the dog felt secure (except for the trauma of losing it's mother
that all dogs endure,) and never felt it was in jeopardy. The trauma was
the owners, not the dogs.

The owner has been since trying to make up for the poor puppies bad start
by giving it everything it wants, and doing anything she wants to.

The owner is no very unhappy with these established behaviors, but does not
want to traumatise the dog by saying no. So she's insisting on purely
positive training methods, only rewarding the behaviors she wants and never
ever offering negatives. She has been through more dog training schools.
Every new class starting, she enrolls in, (only if it's Positive based of
course) and can't figure out why the dog won't behave.
She's SURE that philosophy works. She's just got to find a trainer that's
better at it than her past trainers.

I keep telling her.. just say NO for once!


The dog came here, countersurfed, and I roared, OFF!! And get out of my
house!
The owner says she let the dog do that.
I can't imagine why.
I said.. MY HOuse, MY rules, and YOUR dog may NOT do that. And in my house,
I correct at will, as I see fit, and if you can't accept that, Get thee dog
out of my house. The owner blanched, but will be here this afternoon,
because suddenly she's finding this bratty dog is not only not traumatized
by saying "NO", she actually developing manners and is getting a handle
here.

We spend the afternoon play training the dogs. MOST is positive, but I
don't tolerate crap either.

This dog has baggage. But it's not baggage from the past. It's simply
imagined baggage CAUSED by the owner.

"Janet Boss" wrote in message:

Why are you certain he was abused? It's all your fantasy about him.

A friend of mine took in a dog that was certainly abused. She stepped in
and took him when she found a bunch of kids kicking and beating the crap out
of it, and the pup spent the next few weeks recuperating from it at the
vet's. He went on to become a perfectly well-trained, well-behaved dog.
I'm not sure what a dog's past life (good, bad or ugly, perceived or real)
has to do with the decision to train it or not.

Suja

On Jan 7, 1:55*pm, "Suja" wrote:
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in message:

Sure. *My not-quite six month-old pup inhales his food with little
regard to whether or not it's actually food. *Clearly that's due to
abuse or neglect by humans.

Of my two dogs, the one that has not had a bad day in her life is the one
that acts like she hasn't ever been fed. *Khan is a pretty slow eater. *Of
my friend's two dogs, the little Min-Pin that they've had since puppyhood is
an indiscriminant eater. *The one that they picked up at the shelter is not
terribly interested in food (unless it's a bunnykins that she hunted for
herself). *I could go on and on.

Yep. I forgot about the Bizarro Borzoi. She actually was abused and
neglected, with obvious signs of malnutrition when seized by AC (31"
tall, 51 lb, little muscle, brittle bones, etc.). Triss has never
wolfed down a meal in her life. She has always been a picky eater,
not overly slow but definitely not fast. Of course, she didn't live
'on the streets', just in a townhouse with 20+ other Borzoi and a foot
of feces, and doG knows there's no romance in that.

Mustang Sally

In article
,
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote:

Of course, she didn't live
'on the streets', just in a townhouse with 20+ other Borzoi and a foot
of feces, and doG knows there's no romance in that.

How horrible! But yeah - the abused/starved idea is silly. Lucy never
missed a meal in her life but she totally wolfs food with the speed of
light. Like some others, she'll tell you that she *IS* starving.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote in news:55a2da81-
:

Of course, she didn't live
'on the streets', just in a townhouse with 20+ other Borzoi and a foot
of feces, and doG knows there's no romance in that.


Oh, the poor girl! How awful.

[Subliminal message: Send the Borzoi to meeeee...]

--
Catherine
& Zoe, Queenie, & Max, 3 black dogs of varying sizes
& Rosalie the calico cat
www.ourladyofperfection.blogspot.com

On Jan 4, 11:30*pm, "Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

Teach your dog the command: "Release."

http://wwwpeacenow.blogspot.com/

Mirelle



This morning, on his regular walk, Muttley found what appeared to be the
leg of a large bird like a buzzard, complete with orange talons. He did not
want to let it go, and he dropped it once, but I could not get him away
quickly enough to avoid his grabbing it again. As he walked, he chewed on
the disgusting morsel, making crunching noises. I did not want to try to
grab it away from him, or make too much of a fuss, for fear that he might
try to eat it too quickly or swallow it whole, which might be dangerous. I
thought evenetually he would just chew up the meaty portions, but it seems
that he chewed up and swallowed the whole thing! Yuck!

The day before, he found a raw deer bone, but I was able to take that from
him and throw it down into the stream, much to his chagrin. He seems to
find all sorts of animal parts on our walks, and there are often signs of
various critters, like snakes and birds, that have met their demise in the
woods behind my house. I know I have many deer and some foxes, and of
course squirrels and other varmints, but I wonder what other sorts of
animals are really out there.

Especially, when I walk Muttley in the spooky woods late at night, I'm glad
to have him along. Sometimes my flashlight catches the yellow-orange eyes
of some creature, and I may see them blink and disappear, and then reappear
elsewhere, apparently watching us. I also hear strange sounds in the dark
shadows, and sometimes I turn back rather than chance an encounter with
whatever wildlife might be out there.

Paul and Muttley

On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:05:30 -0500, Janet Boss
wrote:

In article
,
"sighthounds & siberians" wrote:

Of course, she didn't live
'on the streets', just in a townhouse with 20+ other Borzoi and a foot
of feces, and doG knows there's no romance in that.

How horrible! But yeah - the abused/starved idea is silly. Lucy never
missed a meal in her life but she totally wolfs food with the speed of
light. Like some others, she'll tell you that she *IS* starving.

Music, who needs water in his food to slow him down, would definitely
tell you he's starving, and while it's true that I feed him less food
than I've ever fed an adult male greyhound, it's also true that he
looks like a whale. His body gets calories from air, I think.

Mustang Sally