"Terri" wrote in message
...

If it were me then, I'd leave things alone for now. In fact I'd only
intervene if I saw it escalating into aggression. For some reason
that only they understand, there is a shift going on but it seems to
me as if they're dealing with it well on their own.

I've pretty much arrived at the same conclusion. To be honest I'm not sure
how much the things I'd be willing to do different anyways would have on the
relative positions of the two of them (I am not for example going to kick
Erwin out of my room at night). It is facinating to watch though. It looks
like the latest is that Dempsey (the older, #2 dog) over extended himself
yesterday... he's come up lame this morning (ironically on his front left,
same as Erwin...initially I was wondering if there was jealousy going on
there). This will probably curtail his plans to unseat Erwin.


FWIW, whenever I've got a dog that is clearly top dog I follow
their lead by feeding top dog first and treats, etc. Doing otherwise
seems to confuse them. But, I'm talking about much more dominance than
your two seem to be showing.

That's what I would do, anyway.

You didn't say but I see labrador in your addy, so are both Labs?

That sounds like an invite for pictures (yes they are both Labs).
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3234.jpg
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3191.jpg
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg4033.jpg
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3822.jpg

On 22 Jan 2008 10:34:04 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Terri wrote:
FWIW, whenever I've got a dog that is clearly top dog I follow
their lead by feeding top dog first and treats, etc. Doing otherwise
seems to confuse them.

Really? I've never experienced that and I've got really
packy dogs. In fact, Emmett always gets his treat last
because otherwise he swallows it whole and then tries to
inform others that he's entitled to a share of their treat.
He stays focused on me (and what's in my hands) rather than
getting grumpy about it. He gets his food bowl third and
Crow gets hers last, because it's most convenient for me.
Hasn't caused any problems.

I feed according to convenience, as in whose feeding stations are
closest. Two other people here also feed dogs, and we all have
different routines. Due to all the losses we've had, I am not 100%
certain who the alpha is, but if it's who I think it is, he doesn't
get fed first, mostly because of the location of his bowl. None of
this seems to matter; they all want to be fed first, of course, but I
think that's because they're all pigs rather than because feeding
order is tied into their concepts of who's alpha.

Mustnag Sally

On 22 Jan 2008 07:21:45 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
elegy wrote:
i have a hard time believing that those things really matter in the
grand scheme of things. who gets fed first? the dog who takes the
longest to eat. who gets called first? the dog i need first. who gets
collared first? the dog who sits nicely first. i reinforce good
manners far before i reinforce anything about power structure.

Yeah. I actually don't reinforce anything about "power
structure," myself. The dogs have to behave themselves and
they're not allowed to fight. They get fed in the order
their positions or crates are around the room. I'm not
going to ping-pong around the room putting feed bowls down
in the order I believe the dogs think their pack structure
is.

what matters most, imo, is that you provide strong leadership and
don't allow jerky behavior from anybody, regardless of their "status".

Yes! Exactly. I think Dale is worrying too much about
something that doesn't really matter.

I agree, and I do things exactly as Melinda does. I don't care who
they are or what their status is in their pack - there is no fighting,
warning growls are allowed but no snarking and no teeth, and if I have
to correct nasty behavior I generally don't use names, just say
"dogs". They take toys from each other all the time and deal with it
fine (except for the puppy, who barks when he wants something another
dog has - which is every time another dog has something he doesn't).
There is a great abundance of toys, so there's always something for
everyone. Dogs get fed according to whose feedings stations are where
and/or which human is feeding.

Mustang Sally

"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:SMolj.36111$fj2.14001
@edtnps82:

You didn't say but I see labrador in your addy, so are both Labs?

That sounds like an invite for pictures (yes they are both Labs).


They are very extra gorgeous. Who's the meezer, and what's on the dog's
head in that picture?

--
Catherine
& Zoe, Queenie, & Max, 3 black dogs of varying sizes
& Rosalie the calico cat
www.ourladyofperfection.blogspot.com

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:SMolj.36111$fj2.14001
@edtnps82:

You didn't say but I see labrador in your addy, so are both Labs?

That sounds like an invite for pictures (yes they are both Labs).


They are very extra gorgeous. Who's the meezer, and what's on the dog's
head in that picture?

The yellow one is Dempsey (the old guy), the black one is Erwin (the Siamese
one is Sammy).

I assume you mean this one
http://www.atkinfamily.com:80/Family...s/cimg3191.jpg
as far as what's on the dog's head. This one was taken around Christmas,
about a year ago, so those are Reindeer Antlers. Dempsey is the only one of
the two of them who will put up with those for any length of time. Every
time we put them on Erwin he looks at me like 'do I have to do this?" As
soon as I release him from his stay, the first thing he does is take them
off.

Dale

"Dale Atkin" wrote in message
news:x9qlj.21337$yQ1.20779@edtnps89...

"ceb" wrote in message
...
"Dale Atkin" wrote in news:SMolj.36111$fj2.14001
@edtnps82:

You didn't say but I see labrador in your addy, so are both Labs?

That sounds like an invite for pictures (yes they are both Labs).


They are very extra gorgeous. Who's the meezer, and what's on the dog's
head in that picture?

The yellow one is Dempsey (the old guy), the black one is Erwin (the
Siamese
one is Sammy).

I assume you mean this one

http://www.atkinfamily.com:80/Family...s/cimg3191.jpg
as far as what's on the dog's head. This one was taken around Christmas,
about a year ago, so those are Reindeer Antlers. Dempsey is the only one
of
the two of them who will put up with those for any length of time. Every
time we put them on Erwin he looks at me like 'do I have to do this?" As
soon as I release him from his stay, the first thing he does is take them
off.

Dale
=========
Handsome dogs. The old guy doesn't look that old.

"Dale Atkin" wrote in message
news:SMolj.36111$fj2.14001@edtnps82...

"Terri" wrote in message
...

If it were me then, I'd leave things alone for now. In fact I'd only
intervene if I saw it escalating into aggression. For some reason
that only they understand, there is a shift going on but it seems to
me as if they're dealing with it well on their own.

I've pretty much arrived at the same conclusion. To be honest I'm not sure
how much the things I'd be willing to do different anyways would have on
the relative positions of the two of them (I am not for example going to
kick Erwin out of my room at night). It is facinating to watch though. It
looks like the latest is that Dempsey (the older, #2 dog) over extended
himself yesterday... he's come up lame this morning (ironically on his
front left, same as Erwin...initially I was wondering if there was
jealousy going on there). This will probably curtail his plans to unseat
Erwin.


FWIW, whenever I've got a dog that is clearly top dog I follow
their lead by feeding top dog first and treats, etc. Doing otherwise
seems to confuse them. But, I'm talking about much more dominance than
your two seem to be showing.

That's what I would do, anyway.

You didn't say but I see labrador in your addy, so are both Labs?

That sounds like an invite for pictures (yes they are both Labs).
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3234.jpg


They are gorgeous dogs! Simply beautiful dogs. I would take both of them.

Thanks for posting the photos.

best,


td







http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3191.jpg
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg4033.jpg
http://www.atkinfamily.com/FamilyWeb...s/cimg3822.jpg

In article ,
tiny dancer wrote:
They are gorgeous dogs! Simply beautiful dogs. I would take both of them.

And you know she means it!
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community