"Melinda Shore" wrote

"beagle" thing is creating all sorts of expectations for you
and consequently you're making some weird decisions.

Like what? Using the den he was used to so we dont create too many changes?
making things safe if he takes to chewing behavior?

Heck, you can SEE his ribs. We think he's a little underweight but not
sure
by how much. We do not think he is drastically underweight. If we are
right that he weighs about 35lbs, I think he might be 3 lbs under what he
should be.

Why do you think he should weigh 38 lbs?

Best guess. If he weighs about 35 now (a guess), he seems about 3 lbs under
optimal. I dont 'think' you are supposed to be able to clearly see the
bottom 6 ribs clearly through the fur coat are you? If I am mistaken, my
apologies. Seems wrong for this build of dog. he is recovering from heart
worms and is healthy in all other respects. Just looks to *us* like he
still is regaining a last little bit.

He is NOT a purebred pedigree sort. He's a bit mixed. I think his rib cage
looks a bit bigger in a hound dog sort of way so the bit of rib, isnt
outrageous. Just ran outside with him and played ball for a little. Looks
healthy. Just a little under. When he's standing, you can only count 3
ribs. Sleeping, they jut up a bit and can count 6. It's not skeletal level
or anything like that.

I'm estimating just a little bit underweight and not to any medical problem
level.

In article ,
cshenk wrote:
Like what? Using the den he was used to so we dont create too many changes?
making things safe if he takes to chewing behavior?

Like marking as a partiularly beagle behavior (it's okay!
he's beagle! he's *supposed* to do that!!), chewing as a
particularly beagle behavior.

Try getting through one post without bringing "beagle" into
it. There are differences between breeds, to be sure, but
he's a dog and he behaves like a dog and he's trained like a
dog, etc.

Best guess. If he weighs about 35 now (a guess), he seems about 3 lbs under
optimal. I dont 'think' you are supposed to be able to clearly see the
bottom 6 ribs clearly through the fur coat are you?

It really depends on a number of things and varies by dog.
Most pet dogs are too damned fat, many shockingly fat.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:10:55 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:


I'm estimating just a little bit underweight and not to any medical problem
level.

I can't remember the last time that I ever saw an underweight beagle.

Okay.

Maybe there was that one back in the 50s, that got lost at sea for two
months, and was picked up by some Japanese fishermen off the coast of
Okinawa.

But none since then.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Well, this is certain to leave a mark (Hi, Melinda!).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

New Hampshire Winter Festival canceled! Reason: Too damn much winter!
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7940256&nav=4QcS

Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming!
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm

Snow cover over North America greatest since 1966...
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/...html?id=332289

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
Try getting through one post without bringing "beagle" into
it. There are differences between breeds, to be sure, but
he's a dog and he behaves like a dog and he's trained like a
dog, etc.

Without seeing an actual picture, I'd guess that a 35 pound dog labeled as a
Beagle by a shelter probably hasn't seen a purebred beagle in its bloodline
in several generations.

I'll grant that, without seeing the dog, it's a hound. And hounds do have a
certain mindset that is slightly different than, say, nordic breeds. They
still are dogs, and pretty basic *dogs* at that.

But I'm also pretty sure that you - with terrier and nordic/working dog
experience - could train a beagle with the basic skills that you have.
There's very little that is breed-specific.

Beagles/hounds are really pretty easy dogs to train. They are greatly
motivated by food - which makes them easy to get focused on you. They also
are pack dogs and as such understand that rules will be established and they
like having rules. Pleasing you is generally pretty high on their list of
daily To Do things. Except for the rare truly dominant (isn't there a
better word?) dog, they settle fairly quickly into their place in the
household pack and don't constantly test either their place or the basic
rules.

I do love that breed. I so wish that the breeders would pull their heads
out of the sand and address some of the health problems that exist in the
breed ("Not in MY dogs/line!") before they become the next goldens.

Judy

In article ,
Judy wrote:
Without seeing an actual picture, I'd guess that a 35 pound dog labeled as a
Beagle by a shelter probably hasn't seen a purebred beagle in its bloodline
in several generations.

I was wondering about that. Would even a 15" beagle be
considered underweight at 35lbs? I don't have enough
experience with them to know what's "normal."

When I was quite young, between terriers we had a Beagle
named Tiny, who was a pretty great dog. She used to meet us
at the school bus every afternoon. Unfortunately she
started bringing home these big white birds, and my parents,
being kind of clueless city people, shrugged and threw them
out. Of *course* she was raiding the neighboring farm but
it took awhile for my parents to figure that out. Times
were different then and I guess nobody considered keeping
dogs contained, so Tiny found a new home. She was one of
the only dogs I've heard of that moved from the country to
the city because of problem behavior.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On 3 Mar 2008 17:54:01 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:


Would even a 15" beagle be
considered underweight at 35lbs? I don't have enough
experience with them to know what's "normal."

If you had any real curiousity about those kinds of things, you could
read books, search the Internet, etc., but you don't.

Instead, you spend all of your time here, "chit-chatting."

sigh

Heh.

PS: Hey, maybe you could ask TD?

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Well, this is certain to leave a mark (Hi, Melinda!).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

New Hampshire Winter Festival canceled! Reason: Too damn much winter!
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=7940256&nav=4QcS

Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming!
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature...ticle10866.htm

Snow cover over North America greatest since 1966...
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/...html?id=332289

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...

I was wondering about that. Would even a 15" beagle be
considered underweight at 35lbs? I don't have enough
experience with them to know what's "normal."

Well, no. But it's one of those breeds that have trouble staying under that
top height once the breeding program goes to hell. And it's also one of
those breeds that does get "mixed" a whole lot with everything that
(literally) comes down the road.

It wouldn't be unusual for a 15 inch, well-muscled beagle to weigh that.
But not underweight.

She did quickly revise her "beagle" to "beagle mix" which is probably
accurate. Whatever is mixed in there is probably as important to the dog's
behavior as the beagle part is. Which is to say, not a whole lot.

Beagles are just so darned common that everyone thinks they know what one
should look like. Instead what everyone sees is that small hound that
everyone had in their childhood that everyone called a beagle.

Judy

"Judy" wrote
"Melinda Shore" wrote in message

I was wondering about that. Would even a 15" beagle be
considered underweight at 35lbs? I don't have enough
experience with them to know what's "normal."

Well, no. But it's one of those breeds that have trouble staying under
that top height once the breeding program goes to hell. And it's also one
of those breeds that does get "mixed" a whole lot with everything that
(literally) comes down the road.

Yes, and as soon as folks seemed to think I was talking a pedigree 'classic'
from a rescue shelter, I added he's a mix and bigger than standard.

It wouldn't be unusual for a 15 inch, well-muscled beagle to weigh that.
But not underweight.

Measure is from front shoulder to ground right? 17.5 inches. A little
shorter at the back hips. Definately not within 'classics'. Looks at first
glance like a heavy chested two tone tan beagle. Second glance, a bit of a
mix.

Beagles are just so darned common that everyone thinks they know what one
should look like. Instead what everyone sees is that small hound that
everyone had in their childhood that everyone called a beagle.

There are alot of breeds that look pretty close to the common eye. Cash
seems to be a mix with one or more of the other 'hound' types.

Just looking at the web page,
http://www.dogsindepth.com/hound_dog..._foxhound.html there
seems to be a mix of this in there but Cash isnt that tall. Legs somewhat
shorter and a bit heavier chested though it's hard to tell from the angle of
the picture. Imagine a slightly underweight version so you can see the ribs
a little bit but *not* radically so.

Mix that with this:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beagle.htm (which is too short and Cash isnt
tri-color). The main difference is Cash isnt this heavy (as in weight) and
has longer legs. I'd say to my inexperienced eye, this beagle seems a bit
overweight? If this is what Cash 'should' weigh, then he is underweight but
I dont actually think he's far off what he should be. His build is a bit
different though just as wide chested if not a little more so.

Using a simple method with a bathroom scale (weighed Don then Don holding
Cash) which isnt as accurate as the vet's, Cash comes in at 33.5lbs. We
took his food down to a little over 1/2 cup per feeding plus a few training
biscuits (small ones, 3 per day broken in half). That seems to match what
the folks here have been saying.

So, going purely on 17.5 inches and 33.5 lbs, he'd be the top end of the
medium catagory right?

"cshenk" wrote in message
...
Yes, and as soon as folks seemed to think I was talking a pedigree
'classic' from a rescue shelter, I added he's a mix and bigger than
standard.

Yup, you did.

Measure is from front shoulder to ground right? 17.5 inches.

Well, that's roughly how to measure. Close enough anyway. At that height,
there is definitely something else in there. The "beagle-y" look seems to
be pretty dominant and it's what people are used to seeing a lot of so it's
what our minds say is in there.

There are alot of breeds that look pretty close to the common eye. Cash
seems to be a mix with one or more of the other 'hound' types.

Very likely true. And exactly what else is in there is of very little
import in how he is going to behave and how best to train him.

Just looking at the web page,
http://www.dogsindepth.com/hound_dog..._foxhound.html there
seems to be a mix of this in there but Cash isnt that tall. Legs somewhat
shorter and a bit heavier chested

Those are the first things that would separate a beagle from a fox hound
anyway. (I didn't look at that particular picture.)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beagle.htm (which is too short and Cash isnt
tri-color). The main difference is Cash isnt this heavy (as in weight)
and has longer legs. I'd say to my inexperienced eye, this beagle seems a
bit overweight?

That is a particularly ugly beagle. Could be the picture but the legs are
too short and yes, the dog is overweight.

Instead look at AKC and the national breed club's versions:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/beagle/index.cfm

http://clubs.akc.org/NBC/beagle_colors.htm

So, going purely on 17.5 inches and 33.5 lbs, he'd be the top end of the
medium catagory right?

I have no idea what you mean by the medium category. Is this from the dog
food package or from dog breed info?

I would figure that a 15 inch purebred beagle would weigh between 25 and 30
pounds - the higher weight would be a male. A 13 inch beagle would be five
pounds less - perhaps six or so. Those are just rough estimates - it's been
a lot of years since I've had a beagle and I'm going from memory. A heavily
muscled dog could weigh more. I had a male who measured 16 inches and was
*extremely* well muscled - as a fully filled out adult he was about 33 - 35
pounds. With any less muscle, he would have been fat at that weight.

So, assuming that my estimates there are at all close, Cash at 17"+ and 33.5
pounds is probably not overweight. With his health problems, he probably
isn't particularly well muscled and at his age, he isn't fully filled out
yet (although his overall dimensions won't change at that point.).

How much food you feed is dependent first on what the food is. If you are
feeding a denser food, you would feed less of it than you would feed of
another food. Don't cheap it out on food - I can tell by the piles of poop
in my yard that my neighbors are feeding what is known among dog people as
"Bog O' Crap" - not only is the food crappy but it comes out in roughly the
same form as it goes in. You don't necessarily have to feed expensive
food - most dogs do just fine on most foods. If you were involved in any
sort of performance work with your dogs (which it doesn't sound like you are
planning), you would want to learn more about basic nutrition - at least so
you know your way around the labels on the bags.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in your posts or in anyone else's
suggestions to you - I suggest strongly that you find a basic training class
and go to it with your dog. You will be amazed by how much you will learn
in just a few weeks and will be even better at training your dog to be a
well-mannered member of your family. I know you're busy - everyone is.
Trust me on this - it will be worth the effort and time.

Judy

"Judy" wrote

'classic' from a rescue shelter, I added he's a mix and bigger than
standard.

Yup, you did.

I'm not sure what made the impression of pedigree there since it started
with rescue dog, but I must have accidently caused that. No harm, it's
corrected now.

Measure is from front shoulder to ground right? 17.5 inches.

Well, that's roughly how to measure. Close enough anyway. At that
height, there is definitely something else in there. The "beagle-y" look
seems to be pretty dominant and it's what people are used to seeing a lot
of so it's what our minds say is in there.

Yup. 'beagle-y look' says it just right.

There are alot of breeds that look pretty close to the common eye. Cash
seems to be a mix with one or more of the other 'hound' types.

Very likely true. And exactly what else is in there is of very little
import in how he is going to behave and how best to train him.

Just looking at the web page,
http://www.dogsindepth.com/hound_dog..._foxhound.html there
seems to be a mix of this in there but Cash isnt that tall. Legs somewhat
shorter and a bit heavier chested

Those are the first things that would separate a beagle from a fox hound
anyway. (I didn't look at that particular picture.)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/beagle.htm (which is too short and Cash isnt
tri-color). The main difference is Cash isnt this heavy (as in weight)
and has longer legs. I'd say to my inexperienced eye, this beagle seems
a bit overweight?

That is a particularly ugly beagle. Could be the picture but the legs are
too short and yes, the dog is overweight.

Seemed so to us.

Instead look at AKC and the national breed club's versions:

http://www.akc.org/breeds/beagle/index.cfm

http://clubs.akc.org/NBC/beagle_colors.htm


Yup! Had viewed those too.

So, going purely on 17.5 inches and 33.5 lbs, he'd be the top end of the
medium catagory right?

I have no idea what you mean by the medium category. Is this from the dog
food package or from dog breed info?

From general descriptions on the web for sizing. Dog food packages don't
list sizes other than what they think they are appropriate for (far as I
know).

I would figure that a 15 inch purebred beagle would weigh between 25 and
30 pounds - the higher weight would be a male. A 13 inch beagle would be
five pounds less - perhaps six or so. Those are just rough estimates -
it's been a lot of years since I've had a beagle and I'm going from
memory. A heavily muscled dog could weigh more. I had a male who
measured 16 inches and was *extremely* well muscled - as a fully filled
out adult he was about 33 - 35 pounds. With any less muscle, he would
have been fat at that weight.

Seems about right. Cash is a little taller. Just got back from the
petsmart and weighed him. Bathroom scale was right. The ladies there said
he looked *slightly* (1-3 lbs they guessed) under optimum. Not enough to
worry about. I know the vet will know more but that's not for a bit over 2
weeks from now. I'm not suprised. He was treated first for heartworms in
November? He's just on maintenance now but that probably had him lose some
earlier until treated.





So, assuming that my estimates there are at all close, Cash at 17"+ and
33.5 pounds is probably not overweight. With his health problems, he
probably isn't particularly well muscled and at his age, he isn't fully
filled out yet (although his overall dimensions won't change at that
point.).

How much food you feed is dependent first on what the food is. If you are
feeding a denser food, you would feed less of it than you would feed of
another food. Don't cheap it out on food - I can tell by the piles of
poop in my yard that my neighbors are feeding what is known among dog
people as "Bog O' Crap" - not only is the food crappy but it comes out in
roughly the same form as it goes in. You don't necessarily have to feed
expensive food - most dogs do just fine on most foods. If you were
involved in any sort of performance work with your dogs (which it doesn't
sound like you are planning), you would want to learn more about basic
nutrition - at least so you know your way around the labels on the bags.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere in your posts or in anyone else's
suggestions to you - I suggest strongly that you find a basic training
class and go to it with your dog. You will be amazed by how much you will
learn in just a few weeks and will be even better at training your dog to
be a well-mannered member of your family. I know you're busy - everyone
is. Trust me on this - it will be worth the effort and time.

Judy