In article vx1Cj.86056$w57.71673@edtnps90,
"Dale Atkin" wrote:


I hate long lines. I feel that they encourage bad behavior. While we do most
of our walks off leash, I feel that a dog should be able to walk on a
reasonable length leash (my preference is 6') without causing the owner
trouble.

I take it you have no idea what longE line training is.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

In article ,
"Sue and Atty" wrote:


We spent an entire hour long class "being a tree" waiting for Atty to stop
pulling and barking (I want to PLAYYYY) so we could click and treat her.
Atty was 6 months old and our trainer had a baby, so we tried somewhere else
because I did want my 6 month old lab waiting until our trainer came back to
work 3 months later. It was one of those goody goody no correction clicker
classes. Did not work for us. It does work for some, but not mine.

Atty sounds pretty average in her response to this technique! Like I
said, who has time for that crap?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:57:03 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

Your advice seemed pretty good. When Muttley pulls too much, I have him sit
and stay for a while, but when I let him go he resumes pulling. It is
tricky and can be dangerous when negotiating down hilly trails coated with
ice, snow, or mud, but when I have fallen on my butt, Muttley stops and
comes back to check on me.

Tsk-tsk-tsk.

It's so painful to read your posts, Schoen, that my eyes actually
bleed.

And after all this time.

*Still* pulling in his leash.

sigh

--
Handsome "Jack" Morrison

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Advice for Michelle Obama:
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Why Can’t a Woman Be More Like a Man?
http://www.american.com/archive/2008...ore-like-a-man

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Yo! Kevin! *This* is a brave woman. Your buddy Melinda is just a garden-variety bully.
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...0F6B1E68BE.htm

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"cshenk" wrote in message
...
Hi, working with Cash (dog) here.

Has anyone got a decent lead for a web site with leash training? Cash
pulls quite strongly though less so if I shorten the leash. I dont expect
a perfect heel (nor feel a need for it) but he wants to walk faster than I
can comfortably and pulls.

And no, before any ask, I do not want a choke collar or anything with
those nubs inside that hurt if they pull too much. Just basic advice on
how to do this and some leads on places to check.


I rescued a dog that had basically no leash training when I got her. She
was already a strong, adult dog. Like you, I really didn't want to use a
prong collar, but I decided to try it. It worked really well. She didn't
injure herself with the prongs, simply learned to not pull. It isn't
something that you use forever. It's merely a tool to use until you have
taught the dog to 'not pull'. I haven't used my prong collars in a long
time now.

td

"Janet Boss" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Sue and Atty" wrote:


We spent an entire hour long class "being a tree" waiting for Atty to
stop
pulling and barking (I want to PLAYYYY) so we could click and treat her.
Atty was 6 months old and our trainer had a baby, so we tried somewhere
else
because I did want my 6 month old lab waiting until our trainer came back
to
work 3 months later. It was one of those goody goody no correction
clicker
classes. Did not work for us. It does work for some, but not mine.

Atty sounds pretty average in her response to this technique! Like I
said, who has time for that crap?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

hmmm that should have read.... did NOT want my 6 month old lab
waiting....... but I'm sure you figured that out!

I didn't particularly want to spend my 8 classes "being a tree" - I didn't
feel we were getting much out of it. Thankfully, there was a substitute
teacher (the owner of the facility) in for probably 3 of the classes. So,
we did get something out of the class, for those classes. If nothing else,
we did get socialization, but not much help in working through other things.
That came later, when maternity leave was over, along with work on our own
outside class (which was going to happen anyway - and is needed anyway - you
can't show up once a week and do no work in between and expect miracles).
But of course, in those actual classes, with 15 other dogs barking and
pulling and 15 owners practicing their tree.......... we were just all
waiting to get pee'd on by the boys! To this day, "be a tree" is a running
joke in our house.

I agree, my time is limited, I want the most bang for my buck. I know that
it takes time and maturing of the dog (plus work on the owner's part), but
heck. I'm not expecting the pulling to stop over night, but I at least
would appreciate (after all, I'm paying for) professional advise. The tree
thing wasn't working, and she offered no other solution.

Sue and Atty

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
Could be a breed thing, but I find it doesn't work, period.
And I doubt Siberian Huskies are the only breed that will
happily hang on the leash at a dead standstill.

Miniature schnauzers also. Sassy does get bored and turn around to look at
you. Spenser will stay on two feet, stretched out just as far as he can,
front feet off the ground. For longer than I am willing to be a tree.

We had to work out what was an acceptable level of tension and what amount
of attention he had to offer in return. Fortunately, at 16 and 18 pounds,
we can tolerate some pulling. And it doesn't take a great effort to make
them turn - which they are more than willing to do and then go back to
pulling in *that* direction.

It used to be that he would only really pull at the beginning of a walk.
Lately, they've been getting a lot of road work and four miles doesn't tire
them out sufficiently to let the leash go totally loose.

Probably, if we lived in the city and had to walk them every day in close
quarters and around other dogs, we would have done better at this. I do
know there are miniature schnauzers capable of a heel. (Sibes, also, so
I've heard.) But there are so many other things that are higher priority
for us - actually getting them the exercise they need, for starters. So we
have a compromise.

Judy

"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
. ..
cshenk wrote:
Best I have seen so far is:
Every time your dog pulls on leash and you continue the walk, you are
rewarding her for pulling and lunging. Every time your dog gets out of
control it is essential that you instantly stop the walk, stand still and
wait for her to calm down before continuing. It is a tremendous effort in
patience at first but it will pay off if you persevere. You may only get
to the end of the block or even your driveway on your first outing, but
if you give in to your dog's demands, then she will continue to pull. You
can speed up the process by asking her to sit- stay for about 5 to 10
seconds every time she begins to pull. Of course this will only work if
your dog already has a reliable sit-stay.


A few suggestions. One of these may work.


First is a modification of the technique above. The idea is the same--
to teach the dog that pulling doesn't get him anywhere. Instead of
stopping and standing still which means it may take a moment for the dog
to realize that he isn't going anywhere, you change directions in an
upbeat happy fast way. With this method, the dog IS getting somewhere--
as long as the leash is loose. The instant the leash is tight, the dog
doesn't get to whatever he sees in the distance and had him distracted.
At that moment, he has to switch. Walks don't go far, but the dog does
get exercise.


Second is clicker training a heel. In the house, you clicker train your
dog to place his nose by your knee (or thigh or wherever it would fall if
he were walking perfectly by your side). Then you move the operation
outside. Then you ease up on the behavior that gets him a click/treat. It
goes from having to be in perfect heel position to having to be on a loose
leash.


Third is clicker training walking on a loose leash. I think this is
harder because it's less exact, but others will disagree. When the leash
is loose, you click/treat.


Are you sure you won't consider a choke chain or prong collar? The choke
chain was a disaster for Cubbe, but it worked nicely for Sheppe. A few
training sessions with it, and she didn't pull anymore. I'm no advocate
for choke chains, but I believe they can be appropriate for some dogs.
You'd want to have someone show you how to use it properly.

THank you and my apologies to all for being slow to reply. Some issues with
work and my health caused a delay in reading.

I am too new to know what 'click trainer' is. I do not think choke or prong
collar is right this time. He's just not that big and can be more gently
trained. It os also highly possible he was abused in his past so adding a
new to such tactic that might not be 'perfect' isnt a good idea. Such is my
thoughts at least.

I do not demand a perfect 'heel'. I'm happy if i can walk the dog, vice
being walked by the dog g

Can you explain click training?

"Dale Atkin" wrote

I hate long lines. I feel that they encourage bad behavior. While we do
most of our walks off leash, I feel that a dog should be able to walk on a
reasonable length leash (my preference is 6') without causing the owner
trouble.

Thats my goal. That and me walking the dog vice the dog walking me g.

you. You have to make sure that you have their attention before trying any
of this stuff (for exactly the reason quoted above. Some dogs can have a

I will work on this. It might be the issue.

2. Some dogs live to run, and that is the best reward you can give them. I
find if I run with them like a lunatic for a bit, and make rapid changes
in

Fortunately not the problem. I might be able to outrun Cash g.

3. Always give the dog a warning *before* he gets to the end of the leash.
Typically what I do, is say "easy" just before they get to the end, then
I'll pull the leash back about an inch or two, and then return it to its

I need to learn this but he almost 'lunges' right away to it. I wrap it in
my hand to 18 or so inches when he does that then stop and sit down til he
chills out.

me. If you're 100lbs soaking wet, you may need some thing that will give
you a little more immediate control over your dog. (I've heard really good
things about the collar Ceasar Millan sells off his website...).

I'm bigger than him but, well. Umm 119lbs do? He's only 33 lbs!

What we have discovered is although he's better trained than one would
expect, leash training isnt part of it. As said, I dont expect or demand
'perfect', just not to get dragged around g.

"tiny dancer" wrote

And no, before any ask, I do not want a choke collar or anything with
those nubs inside that hurt if they pull too much. Just basic advice on
how to do this and some leads on places to check.

I rescued a dog that had basically no leash training when I got her. She
was already a strong, adult dog. Like you, I really didn't want to use a
prong collar, but I decided to try it. It worked really well. She didn't
injure herself with the prongs, simply learned to not pull. It isn't
something that you use forever. It's merely a tool to use until you have
taught the dog to 'not pull'. I haven't used my prong collars in a long
time now.

I can understand that with a larger dog. For now, I'd like to try gentler
methods and just need some basic info on how to do it.

I have Cash and our daughter Charlotte enrolled in 'obedience classes' but
they wont start for a month.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:59:41 -0400, "cshenk" wrote:

[...]
I hate long lines. I feel that they encourage bad behavior. While we do
most of our walks off leash, I feel that a dog should be able to walk on a
reasonable length leash (my preference is 6') without causing the owner
trouble.

Thats my goal. That and me walking the dog vice the dog walking me g.

you. You have to make sure that you have their attention before trying any
of this stuff (for exactly the reason quoted above. Some dogs can have a

I will work on this. It might be the issue.

The proper use of the long-line (the "longe") *requires* a dog to pay
attention to you, and to you alone. That's precisely what it's for.

It's not for walking your dog, it's for training your dog.

Save yourself (and your dog) some frustration, and get some in-person
help.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Sidney Mamet: No longer a "brain-dead liberal".
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/1...-dead-liberal/

Spitzer's Media Enablers:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1205...s_opinion_main

A message for Melinda Shore, Shelly Couvrette, et al., from The UK's Pat Condell!
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...ing_Islam&only

Yo! Kevin! Here's another *brave* woman! Melinda Shore? Not so much.
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Multiculturalism cannot survive.
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Torn between 2 white liberal guilts.
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/hi...storical-obama

Yo! Kevin! *This* is a brave woman. Your buddy Melinda is just a garden-variety bully.
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1704.htm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...0F6B1E68BE.htm

An Open Letter to Barack Obama (from a member of the UCC):
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A book that every American should read (and NYT #1 bestseller): Liberal Fascism, by Jonah Goldberg
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascis.../dp/0385511841