On 2008-03-13 23:05:25 -0400, "cshenk" said:

I'd like to try gentler
methods and just need some basic info on how to do it.

You may be unfamiliar with and confused about different methods and
what may or may not be "gentle". A properly fitted prong collar should
not hurt the dog and yet a "Gentle Leader" or "Halti" may cause the dog
to suffer neck damage. I would advise you not to use any collar that
requires some training, like any of the collars mentioned above.

You do not know whether your dog was abused for sure, but you do know
that your dog is not being abused now. Don't bring your concerns about
the dog's past into his life with you. He is your dog now and he needs
to be trained to fit your life.

http://www.clickertraining.com/ is a good place to learn about clicker
training. Your timing must be excellent and, like other training
methods, one size does not fit all.

http://dogplay.com/index.html is a good place to get information.

You have a Beagle, or Beagle mix, and so you will probably face some
behaviors that are inherent in hounds. Cash will probably be distracted
by his nose.

One way to practice good leash manners is to start training indoors.
Many people can't imagine using a leash indoors, but it is a very
effective training tool.

On 2008-03-13 23:47:40 -0400, montana wildhack
said:

I would advise you not to use any collar that requires some training,
like any of the collars mentioned above.

Sheesh. You should get instruction from your trainer, who should be
someone who is familiar with a number of different training techniques.
Trainers should have a lot of tools. They most likely should not be
people who work in PetsMart.

"montana wildhack" wrote

I'd like to try gentler
methods and just need some basic info on how to do it.

You may be unfamiliar with and confused about different methods and what
may or may not be "gentle". A properly fitted prong collar should not hurt
the dog and yet a "Gentle Leader" or "Halti" may cause the dog to suffer
neck damage. I would advise you not to use any collar that requires some
training, like any of the collars mentioned above.

Ok and thanks! I was wondering about some of the ones that look like a
little harness (goes under the legs and across the chest). We currently use
the same collar wh has been using. It's about 1 inch wide.

I also have us signed up for some obedience classes now.

You do not know whether your dog was abused for sure, but you do know that
your dog is not being abused now. Don't bring your concerns about the
dog's past into his life with you. He is your dog now and he needs to be
trained to fit your life.

Yes, just working on that.

http://www.clickertraining.com/ is a good place to learn about clicker
training. Your timing must be excellent and, like other training methods,
one size does not fit all.

http://dogplay.com/index.html is a good place to get information.

Great and thanks!

You have a Beagle, or Beagle mix, and so you will probably face some
behaviors that are inherent in hounds. Cash will probably be distracted by
his nose.

Grin, thats usually what gets us. He seems to be mostly scent-hound related
mixes, from the looks of him.

One way to practice good leash manners is to start training indoors. Many
people can't imagine using a leash indoors, but it is a very effective
training tool.

Hadnt thought of that! Will try it!

As mentioned, not trying for a perfect heel or anything like that. Just a
bit less of the pulling. He's slowly getting better. I gather the foster
parents let him pull all he wanted to? They mentioned using those long lead
type devices that run out as much as 30 feet. Wont do for our needs so he's
relearning a shorter lead.

On 2008-03-14 14:31:00 -0400, "cshenk" said:

As mentioned, not trying for a perfect heel or anything like that.

It's okay to teach your dog to heel. You sound apologetic or like you
think you're not going to be successful. Perfection is what works for
you, but it's also okay to teach your dog a proper heel.

Dogs, like children, understand that different people have different
rules. Do your best to communicate clearly what your rules are.

Classes will help, as will practice. Hope your whole family will go to
class together so you are all on the same page.

"montana wildhack" wrote in message
news:2008031323525775249-montana@wildhackcominvalid...
On 2008-03-13 23:47:40 -0400, montana wildhack
said:

I would advise you not to use any collar that requires some training,
like any of the collars mentioned above.

Sheesh. You should get instruction from your trainer, who should be
someone who is familiar with a number of different training techniques.
Trainers should have a lot of tools. They most likely should not be people
who work in PetsMart.

Grin, I think they vary based on who they have as trainers. The close by
one, no. The one farther down the street, yes but a waiting list which we
are on and we should be able to start on Sat mornings in 2-3 weeks.

The fellow has a few basic rules. He said if these cant be met, then he has
referrals for other types of training facilities that can handle the pooch
but not at the petsmart.
1- housebroken (or mostly, enough so they wont pee during training or are
not expected to)
-note made that an excited dog who calms down can disrupt the rest,
especially on this?
2- Dog must tolerate other dogs well and must fit the 'group' he/she is
joining
3- trainer has to meet the dog first before assignment, not a long meeting
but to see which
group he/she fits?
-Opening in 2-3 weeks for one that fits Cash.
-Targeted training to leash walking, hounds mostly, mostly in first
2-3 weeks of a weekly
session
-'Homework' during the week consisting of structured walking on a set
and not too
distracting path
-Advised not to 'treat' the dog while walking just yet til he can
show us how and when to
reinforce correctly. IE: Not just when he stops pulling or he'll
pull then slack to get a
treat grin. Of course, treat other good behaviors as normal.
-continue researching as I have been, and continue current method of
just sitting down if he
pulls too much til he calms down. He said thats a good one but may
not work for all dogs
and he has other tactics to try if so.

This is from last night meeting with him and with Cash in tow on leash.
Cash was better behaved inside, which I explained. I also explained the
last heartworm teatment and he wants to wait til Cash has his vet
appointment for a checkup first (last treatment pending, might need one more
but is well past infectious stages).

Sounded like a decent sort to me! I did *not* like the other petsmart
training place. It didnt look like more than a bunch of dogs running around
playing with one tender watching. The farther place, has the owners doing
the training under his instruction. Children are allowed to watch, but only
allowed to actually train, if old enough and big enough to handle the dog.
He said the first time, Charlotte has to watch because she needs to learn a
bit herself (command voice etc). She's big enough and old enough, but needs
to see it once first g.

Seems a good sort? Our needs are minimal and he seems to have the 'right
stuff'.

Oh, sideline. 2 suspected things he validates to have the vet confirm.
He's a little underweight but not by much. We guess normal recovery from
heartworms and he said yeah, seen it before. (He reminded me to not take
Cash running more than 300 yards or so til the vet checks his heart, just to
be on the safe side). The other I havent mentioned here but Don's noticed.
One of his ribs is a little wierd looking. Kinda 'dented' if thats the
right word. He said the vet will know, but it does indeed look just a bit
odd, as if it had been broken in the past and not set quite right? It's
stable and does not appear to cause him any pain or impede him. Could just
be a genetic abnormality too. He said same as I suspected, to not worry
unless the vet has issues with it. Cash sees the Vet this next Thursday.
He (trainer) also said the vet should look at his hips and would as a
standard thing, but one seemed just 'slightly' favored when walking (we had
not noticed anything but I do notice he always lays on his right side and
the left is the one that he seems to 'slightly favor' according to the
trainer). He said it may be nothing and one of his nails was clipped
slighty close on the back left foot which might be causing the faint
favoring.

Anyways, thats our current status on training. On the peeing/marking, it
had one repeat but we figured it out. Don was home alone working on
something for close to 3 hours straight and hadnt realized he had ignored
Cash that long and he wanted attention. So, to get it, he peed on a box in
the garage right at Don's feet. LOL! Wiley fellow. No, I don't condone it
(nor did Don) but we got the point. I now have a little beep on my watch
every hour to remind us if we have been involved in something, to take a
break and make a little 'Cash time'. Can be just a few minutes belly rub
while you chatter at him, anything really. Just play a little bit and he's
happy with his 'pack'.

Grin, I hope folks here are enjoying the 'Cash' thread. Our mistakes, our
learning, Cash's new home and the fun of adoption of a new rescue.

OH at the expense of a long message: Daisy the cat is with us too now. She
hid for a bit as expected but now jauntily wanders to her cat litter from
her hidy-hole right in front of Cash. They are deciding if they want to
play together today, or tomorrow. Cash is game but patient. Stays 2 feet
away and wags his butt off. Will follow her, but at her speed and maintains
2ft. She 'snarled' at him once for watching her at her kitty litter
business and he ran off with a small 'bay' of the happy sort then watched
from his sofa cushion as she wandered back under the sofa. He seems to
understand 'give me space now, later I will teach you manners and then once
you have learned, we will play'. (Unlike with Dogs, I have a very long
history of cats, even adding cats to estabished cat domains, this is going
very well).

On 2008-03-14 15:38:45 -0400, "cshenk" said:

-'Homework' during the week consisting of structured walking on a set
and not too distracting path
-Advised not to 'treat' the dog while walking just yet til he can
show us how and when to reinforce correctly. IE: Not just when he
stops pulling or he'll
pull then slack to get a treat

That's interesting advice and kind of unique, I think.

On Mar 14, 2:38*pm, "cshenk" wrote:

Anyways, thats our current status on training. *On the peeing/marking, it
had one repeat but we figured it out. *Don was home alone working on
something for close to 3 hours straight and hadnt realized he had ignored
Cash that long and he wanted attention. *So, to get it, he peed on a box in
the garage right at Don's feet. *LOL! *Wiley fellow. *

What makes you think he did that for attention?

Mustang Sally

"montana wildhack" wrote

-'Homework' during the week consisting of structured walking on a
set
and not too distracting path
-Advised not to 'treat' the dog while walking just yet til he can
show us how and when to reinforce correctly. IE: Not just when he stops
pulling or he'll
pull then slack to get a treat

That's interesting advice and kind of unique, I think.

Grin, realize the treat method I was using may have been wrong but the
'settle down' was right. I'd tuck 3 treats in my pocket on a walk (3 parts
of a small dogbone treat). He was sure at that fast simple meeting if i was
accidently reinforcing the negative behavior.

The 'homework' comes after the weekly session and for the rest of the week.
You dont after all just train one day a week and do nothing else, or you
dont get anywheres. Least, thats my take. He said a daily walk on a calm
path at one's home area would do. Since we commonly walk up to 4 miles a
day, this is easy to fit in for us.

Lets see: 1.5 collective to/from school, and at least 1/2 each for me and
Don in addition per day 'someplace' but more often the 2.5 mile round
distance to the store for some odd needed thing. Then Charlotte likes to
take a spin about in the evening for about 1/2 mile or so.

Cash is getting more exercise than we estimated, mostly because we just
didnt add it all up before. It doesnt seem to be hurting him any. He doesnt
get much 'running' but he gets walked more than I'd guess most?

The trainer only had 10 mins with us at the assessement. He seemed
concerned mostly that he would get walked at all and that we needed to 'up
it to 1/2 mile at least a day and every day'. Once I filled him in, he was
happy. In fact I have a sneaky suspicion someone else was in the waiting
line before us that just aint gonna make it, who got bounced out to make
room for us g.

"sighthounds & siberians" wrote

Anyways, thats our current status on training. On the peeing/marking, it
had one repeat but we figured it out. Don was home alone working on
something for close to 3 hours straight and hadnt realized he had ignored
Cash that long and he wanted attention. So, to get it, he peed on a box in
the garage right at Don's feet. LOL! Wiley fellow.

What makes you think he did that for attention?

Best guess as a non-repeated behavior and some web pages/books as well as
various posts here. Cash had access to the backyard all that time and
wandered out there a few times.

On 2008-03-14 23:07:23 -0400, "cshenk" said:

What makes you think he did that for attention?

Best guess as a non-repeated behavior and some web pages/books as well as
various posts here.

I'm curious. Can you cite "various posts here"?

Cash had access to the backyard all that time and
wandered out there a few times.

What does that sentence mean to you?

"Cash had access to the backyard all that time and wandered out there a
few times."

Why does inappropriate peeing or marking - two very different behaviors
- signal a bid for attention?

Does it mean that Cash isn't house trained? Does it mean that Cash
isn't sure where "inside" is?